tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Nov 11 17:26:52 1993

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Re: <<tlhIngan 'o' Humghach>>vetlh

Some quick corrections and comments on the most excellent followup by trI'Qal.
I'm lazy and I think my month is up, so I'm doing this in English.  If I seem
more picky than usual it's because people on the list seem to really like
having things correct.  So things that I'd normally let slide on the premise
that "Oh, this was just an oversight, he really knows better" I'm now flagging.


>HIyay'!  <<tlhIngan 'o' Humghach>> wa'DIch vIghItlhta'DI' mISvam jIpIHbe'qu'!  
>tIvqu' Hoch neH vIneHpu'!  'ach yajchugh pagh, tlhaQbe' HaghmoHwI'.  
>HaghmoHwI'meywIj mach yajchu'be'pu' nuv law' 'e' tu'lu'law'.  jabbI'IDvamDaq 
>vIlugh'eghmoHlI' 'ej vIghItlhtaHvIS tlhIHvaD QubghachmeywIj vInoblI'.  je, 
>tera'ngan HolDaq Hoch vIghItlhlI', vaj yajlaH Hoch.

>Confound it!  When I wrote the original "Klingon Bumper Stickers," I did NOT 
>expect this confusion!  I only wanted for everyone to *enjoy* them!  But if no 
>one understands it, the joke isn't funny.  It seems that many people didn't get
>my little jokes.  I am correcting myself in this positing, and giving you my 
>thoughts while I write.  Also, I am translating all of it to Federation 
>Standard so that all can understand.

Ok, I have a problem with HIyay'.  It appears to translate as "Be shocked me!",
whatever that might mean.  Perhaps you wanted HIyay'moH?  Of course, for
"Confound it", I'd probably reach for something more forceful, like Qu'vatlh,
or one of that ilk.

Wrong prefix on pIH, needs to be vIpIHbe'qu'.  For "I only wanted...", it needs
to be vIneHpu' neH.  The adverbial neH always follows the thing it modifies.
Wrong prefix on lugh, needs to be jIlugh'eghmoHlI' (because of the -'egh).


>10.  <<SoSlI'maHtaH>> vIghItlhbejpu'DI' <<SoSlI' maHtaH>> vIHech.  "typo"na' 
>'oHpu' "space" Dach'e'.
>jIhvaD pIm <<maHtaH>> <maH>> je.  jIHvaD <<maHtaH>> raD law' <<maH>> raD puS.  
>bInejchugh mu'tlhegh latlhDaq <<-taH>> vIlo'be' 'e' Dalegh.  jIQaghbe'qu'.  'ej
><<nuvpu''e' DughuHmoHbogh SoSlI' maHtaH>> DaH 'e' teHtaH je. {{;)  ja'ta'DI' 
>mu'mey mamevbe'qu'pu'.  {{:)

>10:  I meant "SoSlI' maHtaH" when I wrote "SoSlI'maHtaH."  The missing space 
>was a typo.  "maH" to me is different from "maHtaH."  "maHtaH" is more forecful
>to me.  If you look, you will see that I didn't use -taH in the other 
>sentences.  I didn't err.  And also, we are still continueing to be the people 
>your mother warned you about now.  We didn't stop when the words were spoken. 
>{{:)

Word order problem:  should be mu'mey ja'ta'DI'


>5.  tlhIngan HolDaq Hoch vIghItlh vIneHta', 'ach neH SamISmoHpu'.  'ej 
><<jatlh>> vIHechta'chugh, <<jatlh>> vIjatlhta'. {{:)  qaSpu'bogh vay' ja' 
><<ja'>>, 'ach jatlhghach 'oH <<jatlh>>'e'.  choyaj'a'?

>5.  I wanted to write all of it in Klingon, but I only confused you.  And if I N
>meant "jalth", I would have said "jatlh." :)  "ja'" tells something which has 
>occured, but "jatlh" is just speaking.  Do you understand?

Again, neH has to go after the verb.  SamISmoHpu' neH.


4.  I'm not convinced the Klingon captures the English meaning.  The English
really means  "It is better to be dead than to be a Federation person (or, what
I'd call a "Fed-head"); it does not really refer to the Federation as a whole.
I think I'd do it as:    Heghpu'wI' quv law' DIvI'ngan quv puS


>2.  DIvI'vaD vInoD.  "song" lughItlh:  "Star Trekking."  "song"qoqvamDaq <<nIH 
>'etmajDaq SaHqu' tlhInganpu'! tIteq, "Jim!">> lujatlh.  vIghItlhpu'bogh Dochvam
>vInoDlI'.  chaq <<"scrape">>Daq <<teq>> vIchoHchugh Dayaj'a'?  tera'ngan 
>HaghmoHwI' 'oH 'e' vIQub.  je <<tlhIHvo'>> vIqawnISpu'. {{:(

>2.  I am responding to the Federation.  They wrote a song:  "Star Trekking."  
>In this so-called song, they say "There's Klingons on the starboard bow!  
>Scrape them off, Jim!"  I am retaliating with this.  Perhaps if I change "teq" 
>to "scrape" you will understand?  I think it is an Earther joke.  Also, I 
>needed to remember the "tlhIHvo'. :( 

je as an adverbial works the same as neH:  it goes after the verb.  So:
<<tlhIHvo'>> vIqawnISpu' je

I think the main confusion here is simply the slightly obscure reference.  I
know the song in question, but I'm not sure I would've gotten the joke even
with the *English*, without an explanation.


>1.  jIquvmoHHa''egh.  (What is the suffix order in such a construct?  If we 
>assume that -moH is part of the verb, it would be as I showed here, but my 
>instincts say that this is incorrect, and the 'egh should go before the -moH.  
>pabpo'mey??? Qanqor???? Anyone??? :/)  HISlaH, <<HumwI'>> 'oHnISba'.

>1.  I dishonoured myself.  Yes, it obviously should be "HumwI'."

toy'rup pabpo'.  Your instincts are quite correct (Duj tIvoqtaH, to coin a
phrase).  It should be jIquvHa''eghmoH.  And it is now more than a matter of
instinct.  There is evidence on the new tape to support this conclusion.

                        --Krankor

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