tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Oct 10 16:15:04 2015

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country Klingon Dialogue

lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh ([email protected]) 

<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Just to supplement Qov’s excellent answers and lessons here, I just want to open your mind to principles that are mentioned in The Klingon Dictionary, but tend to be glossed over by new people learning the language.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Klingon is a language, not a code. Implied in this, you need to realize that replacing English words with Klingon words and changing the word order is not always going to translate an English sentence into a Klingon sentence very well. Sometimes, you have to pay less attention to the words in an English sentence and pay more attention to its meaning.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In particular, I’m going to make the sentence I’m now writing somewhat of an example of how a person speaking English can easily pack a lot more than that “single thought” they taught you about in high school, which is supposed to be the official boundary of what constitutes a sentence into a sentence, but in fact, English, though its extensive use of “helper words”, can pack quite a bit more than a single thought into a sentence and just keep on going, sucking in new ideas that have nothing to do with the original “single thought” that a sentence was supposed to have contained, much like the term “cottage cheese”, which I once dreamed quite believably within the boundaries of the dream to be the secret of the Universe — the answer to all questions — even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the sentence I started writing to illustrate one of the differences between Klingon grammar and English grammar.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My point is, that English can pack much more into a sentence than any self-respecting Klingon speaker would ever want to TRY to pack into one Klingon sentence.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, if you want to say, “I am a human foot surgeon,” there is no reason to not break that down into two Klingon sentences. {HaqwI’ jIH. Human jIH.}</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Or, if you wanted to make that other statement: HaqwI’ jIH. Human qamDu’ vIrI’.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It makes for very clear expression of meaning, and avoids the artificial challenge of packing three nouns together, leaving the listener to figure out from context what the relationship is among them. Don’t expect to hold a Klingon’s attention by packing more than one thought into a sentence. He might hurt you. Don’t tease a gorilla, and don’t speak long, complex sentences to a Klingon.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In TKD, Okrand also points out that in Klingon, it is much more common than in English to repeat the same noun in a sentence, where in English we tend to replace all but the first mention with pronouns. The point here is that Klingon sentences tend to be short enough that you aren’t padding them all that much to repeat a noun now and then, and it gives you the opportunity to be extremely clear about exactly whom or what you are talking about.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Since Klingons are often discussing things like whom to kill or what to destroy, clarity has a lot of cultural value. Learn to speak Klingon clearly.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<div class=""><div class="">lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh</div><div class="">Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 10, 2015, at 11:46 AM, HoD qunnoQ &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]"; class="">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">thanks for the corrections ! yes indeed i tried to say that Qov is a space ship,but i got the word order wrong ; but now i understand how i should have written it.<br class=""><br class=""></div>moving on to your new question,as i understand it,it asks "am i a paper book ?" but yet another question arises..&nbsp; the 'a' is an interrogative ; why place a question mark at the end ? isn't that unnecessary ?<br class=""><br class=""></div>and to try to answer to the question : ghobe'. <span class="im">qam HaqwI' SoH.&nbsp; <br class=""><br class="">but if wanted to write "no,you are a human foot surgeon" how would i write it ? "</span>ghobe'. <span class="im">qam HaqwI' Human SoH " ?<br class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span class="im">qunnoQ<br class=""></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 3:42 PM, David Holt <span dir="ltr" class="">&lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank" class="">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">&gt;&gt; HaqwI' JIH je. qam HaqwI' jIH. ro HaqwI' SoH'a'?<br class="">
&gt;<br class="">
&gt; with the help of the boQwI app i think that this means : "i'm a surgeon<br class="">
&gt; too. a foot surgeon. are you a trunk/body surgeon ?"<br class="">
<br class="">
</span>maj!<br class="">
<span class=""><br class="">
&gt; i would like to give the reply "no,i'm an orthopaedic surgeon". So<br class="">
&gt; maybe i would say : "Qo'. ghIv HaqwI' jiH."<br class="">
<br class="">
</span>Check what boQwI' says about {Qo'} as an exclamation.&nbsp; It cannot be used to answer a "yes" or "no" question.&nbsp; It is used when somebody tells you to do something and you refuse.&nbsp; Now look up {ghobe'}.&nbsp; The sentence which follows that was very well done. &nbsp;majQa'!<br class="">
<span class=""><br class="">
&gt; @ Qov (robyn) : Duj logh SoH !&nbsp;<br class="">
<br class="">
</span>Perfect use of {SoH}!&nbsp; Though I think the other words may have gotten a little mixed up.<br class="">
<br class="">
When you put two nouns together (like {ghIv HaqwI'} and {Duj logh}), the second noun is the thing being described and the first noun modifies it in some way.&nbsp; A common relationship between the two is that the first noun is owner of the second noun.&nbsp; But it may also be that the second noun is made out of the first noun.&nbsp; Or that second noun is the type used by the first noun.&nbsp; Other more complicated relationships are possible, but the point it's a first-noun kind of second-noun.&nbsp; By the way, this is exactly how we do it in English, too and when you are putting two nouns together you can often (but not always) just put the English and Klingon in the same order (for possession we add 's in English, but nothing in Klingon).&nbsp; In those cases where that is not clear, it helps to reverse the order of the words and insert "of".<br class="">
<br class="">
{janSIy SID} is "Johnshee's patient" (ownership). &nbsp;{baS Haqtaj} is a "steel scalpel" (made of). &nbsp;{tlhIngan Duj} is a "Klingon ship" (used by). &nbsp;{yIn Quj} is the "game of life" (more complicated relationship).<br class="">
<br class="">
So I am a "foot kind of surgeon", a "foot surgeon", or a "surgeon of the foot".&nbsp; You are a "limb kind of surgeon", a "limb surgeon", or a "surgeon of the limbs".&nbsp; And you've described Qov as a "ship kind of outer space", a "ship outer space", or an "outer space of a ship".&nbsp; You might have instead meant {Duj} to mean "instinct", but I'm proceeding under the assumption that you meant to call Qov a "space ship".&nbsp; If that's the case, then you're saying she's a kind of ship and the kind of ship is a space kind.&nbsp; The descriptor goes first followed by the thing being described.&nbsp; So {logh Duj} is "space ship".<br class="">
<br class="">
nav paq jIH'a'?<br class="">
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br class="">
janSIy<br class="">
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