tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Oct 06 09:48:00 2015

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Canon: Associate Producer

Will Martin ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">While this is all good information and accurate, a tidbit that might make it make more sense is that {lo’laH} became exceptional because Okrand inadvertently used it as an adjective modifying a noun. {-laH} is not a suffix you can normally use on a “to be” verb used as an adjective. He declared {lo’laH} a root verb in order to retroactively make his mistake not a mistake without having to declare that all “to be” verbs can use {-laH} added while they are used as adjectives. It’s not a rule change he wanted to make, so the verb became exceptional.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is how many Klingon exceptions are created, giving it the quantity of exceptions to its rules that make it more like a natural language.</div><br class=""><div class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;  "><div class="">pItlh</div><div class="">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">

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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 6, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Rohan Fenwick &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]"; class="">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">ghItlhpu' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, jatlh:<br class="">&gt; But the only real rule is that (with few exceptions like {lI'be'} and {lo'laH}) verbs are monosyllabic.<br class=""><br class="">In addition, for HoD qunnoQ's information, it's important also to know that most of the apparent exceptions listed in TKD are there simply as lookup aids (for instance, {jubbe'} "be mortal", {HeghmoH} "be fatal"), and {lI'be'} falls into that group as far as we know. Marc has addressed this idea explicitly in a posting to the MSN Newsgroup:<br class=""><br class="">"For the most part, entries in The Klingon Dictionary (and also in the addendum in Klingon For the Galactic Traveler) that consist of verb + suffix are indeed just that, verb + suffix. For example, one entry in the Dictionary is pujmoH "weaken." This is really puj "be weak" and the suffix -moH "cause" (thus "weaken" is "cause to be weak"). Since -moH is a Type 4 suffix, if a suffix of Type 1, 2, or 3 is to be used (such as -chuq "each other" [Type 1] or -nIS "need" [Type 2]), it would precede the Type 4 -moH; for example, pujchuqmoH "they weaken each other" or pujnISmoH "he/she needs to weaken [somebody]." It is, of course, possible to add the suffix -moH to lots of verbs; not all of the verb + -moH combinations are listed in the Dictionary as distinct entries. The ones that are listed are there as much as a matter of convenience for the user as anything else. For example, there is an entry for "commit suicide" just in case anyone wants to look that word up; but the Klingon equivalent is simply HoH'egh, literally "kill oneself" (HoH "kill" plus Type 1 verb suffix -'egh "oneself")." (Okrand to MSN Newsgroup, 30 Nov 1997)<br class=""><br class="">So despite the gloss, {HeghmoH} (for instance) isn't an adjectival verb as the gloss "be fatal" might suggest; it's a verb-suffix compound. {bIHeghmoH} means "you cause [an unspecified object] to die" - more simply, "you cause [things] to die", or "you are fatal". Marc does go on to note, though, that {lo'laH} *is* an exception, and despite its superficial similarity to {lo'} + {-laH} (from which it may be descended), it is indeed a disyllabic and indivisible root in ta' Hol. So it'd be {jIlo'laHchoH} "I become valuable", {Dalo'laHmoH} "you cause it to be valuable". {Dalo'moHlaH} means something entirely different, "you can cause [someone] to use it".<br class=""><br class="">QeS<br class=""></div><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Tlhingan-hol mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:[email protected]"; style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">[email protected]</a><br style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol"; style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>
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