tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jan 29 07:25:41 2015
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Beginners corner
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As Felix explained {Hem} means “be proud” (intransitive), not “be proud OF (something/someone)” (transitive). (You have to watch out for those prepositions in
the dictionary!) Here is how Okrand has used {Hem}:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Hem tlhIngan Segh 'ej maHemtaH 'e' wIHech
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Klingons are a proud race, and we intend to go on being proud. (TKW)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
tuQtaHvIS Hem. ghaHvaD quHDaj qawmoH. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> He wears it proudly as a reminder of his heritage. (S20)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
Hem; tlhIngan rur <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> proud as a Klingon (KGT; common simile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
lutlhej tlhInganpu' Hem mI' nIb <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> an equal number of proud Klingons [accompany him] (PB)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
naDev Sughompu' 'ej Qo'noS SuvwI'pu' Hem tlhIH <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> All of you here, proud warriors of Kronos (PB)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
qanjIt qan vemmoH moratlh, vavDaj ghaH qanjIt'e' puj tIqDu'Daj 'ach Hem <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Morath wakes his father, the old Kanjit, his hearts weak, but proud. (PB)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> maQ 'oH HemHa'choH 'ej cho'choH moratlh
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> The signal for Morath to lose his pride and claim a throne. (PB)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">HolQeD 12.3 p.9: To be {Hem} “proud”, however, is quite admirable and does not carry any connotations of arrogance as the Federation Standard words “proud” and
“pride” sometimes do. The noun {'eDjen} refers to a person who is arrogant or haughty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">BTW the noun “pride” seems to be {le’yo’}:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> le'yo'raj nIHlu'ta'mo' penoD jatlh qeylIS, woQ le'yo' je 'aghbej ghaH
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> And Kahless spoke to them … filled with pride and authority, about avenging<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> their stolen pride (PB)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>>
</span><span style="color:black">: I passed a hard exam. I am proud of myself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To allow those descriptive (or “stative”) verbs to take an object you generally add the suffix {-moH} (become) as Felix explained. But when Klingon doesn’t have
the right verb – or doesn’t have it in the right form - there’s an easier way to translate and that’s by recasting the sentence to avoid the problem: “I passed a hard exam; I am proud.” Sometimes you may tag the dependent clause with {-mo’} “because” as
Felix showed you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Now Klingon doesn’t have a noun “test”, but it does have the verbs {chov} “assess, evaluate, test”, {waH} "try out, test, use experimentally", {tob} “test conclusively”
and {Daj} “test inconclusively”. So one could say, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> luchovpu'. jIHem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> They have tested/evaluated me. I am proud.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> luchovpu'mo’ jIHem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Because they have tested/evaluated me I’m proud.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> lutobpu’. jIHem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> They have tested me conclusively, I’m proud.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> lutobpu'mo’ jIHem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> Because they have tested me conclusively, I’m proud.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And speaking of being proud of oneself, Klingon does have three more stative verbs: {jeQ} “be self-confident”, {jaq} “be bold” and {nguq} "be arrogant, haughty,
conceited". <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:[email protected]]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 29, 2015 7:02 AM<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Consider what role you intend for jIH to have in this sentence. Is it as the object of the sentence? In that case, you need to make
sure you have the right prefix and suffix.<br>
In this case, because both the subject and the object are {jIH}, the correct choice would be *jIHem'egh* ("I proud myself").<br>
<br>
However, I believe it's quite widely accepted that {Hem} does not take an object. To say "I'm proud of myself.", try to ask yourself "What does 'of' mean in this case?"<br>
English uses the same preposition for a lot of different purposes. "of" can meaning "belonging to", "relating to", "coming from", "due to", "because of", and a great many other things.<br>
<br>
I think the "of" in this case could be interpreted as "due to" or "because of". So, perhaps:<br>
<br>
* {jIHmo' jIHem.}<br>
"I am proud because of me."<br>
<br>
That may be a bit unspecific, though. Consider:<br>
<br>
* {chavwIjmo' jIHem.}<br>
"I am proud because of my achievement."<br>
<br>
* {jIQapta'mo' jIHem.}<br>
"I am proud because I have succeeded."<br>
<br>
Also, consider using -moH ("cause"):<br>
<br>
* {jIHem'eghmoH.}<br>
"I make myself proud."<br>
<br>
* {jIHem'eghmoHta'.}<br>
"I've (intentionally and successfully) made myself proud."<br>
<br>
* {muHemmoH chavmeywIj.}<br>
"My achievements make me proud."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Maxim Sonin [[email protected]]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 29, 2015 13:13<br>
</span><b><i><span style="color:#1F497D"></span></i></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="color:black">Another beginners question</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:black">Can you say: "jIH jIHem" as "I am proud of myself"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black">For example: I passed a hard exam. I am proud of myself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black">Would this, if grammatically correct, be considered ignorant?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[</span></i></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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