tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 20 10:19:50 2015
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] tera' Hovtay'Daq PLUTO HurDaq bIHtaH'a' latlh yuQmey?
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">True, {latlh} is a noun glossed as “</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">additional one, other one, another one<b>” but – like other nouns – it can be pluralized, either explicitly either
by adding a plural suffix to {latlh} or to a following noun (in a noun-noun phrase). E.g.<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-family:Courier"><br>
<br>
latlh</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family:Courier">And the others?<b> </b>
ST5<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">Heghtay lulop latlh tlhInganpu'</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">.<b> Heghtay luloptaHvIS chaH chaq bey SeQ lujach
<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">other Klingons may perform a ceremonial howl or yell as part of the Klingon death ritual. S31<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">beyHom bey bey'a' jachtaH latlh tlhInganpu'</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">others [<i>Klingons</i>] roar in a great crescendo. S31</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Courier">Heghpu'bogh latlhpu' ghuHmoH bey</span></b><span style="font-family:Courier">.<b> ghoS tlhIngan SuvwI' maq</b>.<b>
<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Courier">This yell ... serves to warn the other dead that a Klingon warrior is coming. S31<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">yIntaH qIrq 'e' vIneH. DaSwIj bIngDaq latlhpu' vItap</span></b><i><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">.</span></i><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Kirk I want alive. The rest I will grind beneath my boot. (<i>STConst</i> p.232)<br>
<b><u><br>
</u>latlh SuvwI'pu' Dara'bogh DaSuq. <o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Number of warriors under your command increases. MKE<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:55 AM<br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t think it’s very clear speech to stack modifiers in that style. We have clearer options:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.8pt;text-indent:31.2pt">cha’ yuQmey DItu’pu’be’bogh<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If you really want to use {lath}, I’d go with {yuQmey’e’ cha’ latlh tu’lu’}.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As for the other stuff you are asking about with {lath}, I think we are best served to remember that {latlh} is not an adjective in Klingon. It’s a noun. <b><i><span style="color:#1F497D">
</span></i></b><span style="color:#1F497D"> [….]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So, for “There are other Klingons here,” I’d be much happier with {tlhInganpu’’e’ naDev latlhpu’ tu’lu’} than with {naDev latlh tlhInganpu’ tu’lu’}.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think that as a community, we’ve gotten sloppy with {latlh} because we want to use it like {tlhIngan} in {tlhIngan Hol} and treat it like an adjective in our translations without checking to make sure that it actually makes sense as a
noun. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It’s a noun. We can’t forget that inconvenient truth. The definition is “(noun) additional one, another one” and we keep wanting to eliminate the word “one” from it and use it to mean “(adjective) additional, another”.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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