tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 25 08:33:27 2015
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Nonsense words
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I quite agree. I was suggesting Qov verify that these didn’t make it into the Bing database by mistake – like *<b>Maktag</b>* did.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
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<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:28 AM<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I seriously doubt that Okrand vetted ANY of these “month” names, and I don’t feel responsible for memorizing every impossible-to-pronounce junk word that any fiction writer comes up with for a character pretending to speak Klingon.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If the author doesn’t respect the language enough to work something out with Marc Okrand, I don’t respect the author enough to learn the words or add them to any lexicon.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Retired Door Repair Guy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 25, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Steven Boozer <<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Qov, another Klingon month name from the episodes you might want to check is *<b>Nay’Poq</b>*:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family:Courier">Kohlar asked the pregnant B'Elanna, "Did you conceive d</span><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">uring</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> the holy month of *<b><i>Nay'Poq</i></b><i>*</i>?" (VOY "Prophecy"; why this month</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> is holy was not explained)<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Also *<b><i>Lo'Bral</i></b><i>*, *<b>Soo'jen</b>*, *<b>Merruthj</b>*<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></i>and *<b><i>Xan'lahr</i></b><i>*</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>are other months
"in the Year of Kahless" sequence from Michael A. Martin & Andy Mangels'<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>Excelsior: Forged in Fire<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></i>[2007].<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Voragh</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Ca'Non Master of the Klingons</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 24, 2015, at 10:56 PM, Robyn Stewart <<a href="mailto:[email protected]";><span style="color:purple">[email protected]</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Perfect. That’s just what I was hoping: it’s the name of a *<b>particular</b>* month—in a particular culture on a particular planet.
So I don’t have to disprove it.<br>
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Now if everyone, of any ability, would write me a few Klingon sentences whose English translation contains the word “month” or “season” we can retrain it. Don’t stretch yourself. Write within your ability. E-mail to me, include the English translation and
then I will post the list for us to typo check.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">- Qov</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Felix
Malmenbeck [<a href="mailto:[email protected]";><span style="color:purple">mailto:[email protected]</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>February 24, 2015 15:19</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">> Maktag<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>maqtagh: a klingon month or season (n) [From "New Ground" (TNG). At least 43 days long.]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>Is anyone familiar enough with this TNG novel to know whether</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">> maqtagh was supposed to be a particular season, analogous</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">> perhaps to “monsoon” or “spring” or a generic word for a</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">> seasonal time period?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Not a novel, actually, but an episode.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Alexander Rozhenko, son of Worf, was born on the 43rd day of Maktag. It's not specified if it's a month or a season.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The book Excelsior: Forged in Fire treats it as a month.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">(It also treats Klingon years as being precisely the same length as Earth years, which flies in the face of Star Trek canon.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Robyn
Stewart <<a href="mailto:[email protected]";><span style="color:#954F72">[email protected]</span></a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, February 25, 2015 00:07<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[Tlhingan-hol] FW: Nonsense words</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">From a conversation with my primary contact on the Microsoft Bing team.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">---</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I found this online (<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/md/startrekkie1701/klindic.html";><span style="color:#954F72">http://www.angelfire.com/md/startrekkie1701/klindic.html</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>--
careful, this site seems weird and may contain malware)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Maktag<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">maqtagh: a klingon month or season (n) [From "New Ground" (TNG). At least 43 days long.]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Somehow the wrong spelling of Maktag made it into a training text file, where I can see</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">maqtagh <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
month</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">maqtagh <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">à</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
season</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">i.e. possibly someone originally found the site above and added words / sentences to one of the training files.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And so the engine learned that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">We have to remove and retrain.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">We have an efficient way to change bad translation, but not a good way to ‘remove’ words or phrases altogether..<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">..what I can do easily (we do these once a week) is to replace the wrong translation from English to Klingon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">i.e. “month” and “season” right now translate to “maqtagh”.. what would be a better translation for “season”?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">---<br>
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">Some well-meaning individual has managed to add Angelfire to our learning files, and like glitter in the carpet, it will be everywhere unless we can pick it out grain by grain. Is anyone familiar enough with this TNG novel
to know whether maqtagh was supposed to be a particular season, analogous perhaps to “monsoon” or “spring” or a generic word for a seasonal time period? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">- Qov</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="background:white">Tlhingan-hol mailing list</span><br>
<span style="background:white"><a href="mailto:[email protected]";><span style="color:purple">[email protected]</span></a></span><br>
<span style="background:white"><a href="http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol";><span style="color:purple">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</span></a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">_______________________________________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
</span><a href="mailto:[email protected]";><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple">[email protected]</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><br>
</span><a href="http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol";><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
[email protected]
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol