tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Sep 02 23:22:25 2014
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[Tlhingan-hol] From Marc Okrand: tu'lu' is a set form
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">We’ve suspected this for a while, given the number of times tu’lu’ has been used where lutu’lu’ was expected. (Ugh, can’t turn off smart quotes because I need to keep the following formatting), but Marc has confirmed that tu’lu’ is a set form that is grammatical for singular or plural. I mentioned my suspicion in a throwaway comment about something else he asked me to send for Maltz’ analysis, and he was able to verify it right away without even consulting Maltz. His words:<BR>
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You're right about<B> tu'lu'</B>. It's a fixed or set form and it's used whether the object is singular or plural. If the object is plural, the<B> lu</B>- could be used or not -- but the form lacking the<B> lu</B>- is far more common and the form with the<B> lu</B>- sounds a little pedantic. This kind of parallels what's going on in English these days (at least in the US -- I don't know about Canada or the UK) where "there's" is often used regardless of whether what follows is singular or plural:</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> There's some things you need to know.</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> There's no tomatoes in the store.</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> There's more Klingons than Romulans around here.</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> There's a lot of cars on the road today.</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">This works for the contraction only. "There is some things...", "There is no tomatoes...", "There is more Klingons...", "There is a lot of cars..." are all ungrammatical. (Well, the last one is okay if by "lot" you're referring to a place where they sell cars.)</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">It's fine to say:</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> There are some things..., There're some things...</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> There are no tomatoes..., There're no tomatoes...</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> There are more Klingons..., There're more Klingons...</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> There are a lot of cars..., There're a lot of cars...</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">Klingon works the same way. <B>tu'lu'</B> is like "there's" (object can be singular or plural) and<B> lutu'lu'</B> is like "there are/there're" (object must be plural).</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca">My guess here is that a common Clipped Klingon construction crept into everyday Klingon and became the usual way of doing things.<BR>
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(excerpt from e-mail to me, dated 2014-09-02 21:47)</SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">So we can keep being pedantic about lutu’lu’ if we want, but that puts us on the level of people (like me) who say</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">“mmm” as we pass the “Who will you share a Coke with?” sign, and not because I like Coca-Cola.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> </SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">- Qov</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>
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