tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Oct 23 06:02:24 2014

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[Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: Beginner's Grammarian

Casey Ransberger ([email protected]) 

<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Whoops. *hic.* This was meant for the list. Every other mailman list I'm on has reply_goes_to_list set.&nbsp;<br><br>Begin forwarded message:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><b>From:</b> Casey Ransberger &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt;<br><b>Date:</b> October 23, 2014 at 5:51:46 AM PDT<br><b>To:</b> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> <b>Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Beginner's Grammarian</b><br><br></div></blockquote><div><span></span></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>I've clipped the original message to the parts I wanted to talk about. Anyone seeking context can look at the list archive. My comments are inline. It's longish, sorry about that. </span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Oct 22, 2014, at 6:41 PM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>It’s not about ego. It’s all about respect for the language and the learning of it. We each find our own path to acquiring skill with the language. There has never been an easy, straightforward path. The challenge is part of the reward.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>These words are good. </span><br><span></span><br><span>I would argue that the only sure-fire way to learn a language is to go somewhere where you will be immersed in it. The closest thing we seem to have to that place is a (relatively) quiet mailing list. </span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>You are proving that you can do something that few others in the world can do.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>Can't help pointing out that you've just contradicted your own argument. If it isn't about ego, why prove that you can do something which others cannot?</span><br><span></span><br><span>I am unsure. When we talk about what people *can* do, what people are *able* to do, sometimes we confuse being-able with wanting-to.</span><br><span></span><br><span>It seems true that very few people have accomplished fluency. 22 years ago, one of mom's friends gave me the dictionary, because: give the dictionary you can't make sense of to the apparent genius child who's as into Star Trek as you are, right? I studied it, stupidly, alone. None of the other kids cared about understanding what the Klingons were saying, so I was sort of working with a book in a vacuum. </span><br><span></span><br><span>Many years later, really, recently, I fell in with some learning researchers, and they taught me that the way you learn a language is by being immersed in it. Constructed languages don't enjoy the benefit of a place where everyone speaks them. </span><br><span></span><br><span>This is why I'm bothering with the mailing list. There are people who speak the language here. This is the closest I can get to learning French by living in Paris. </span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Most people would argue that it’s a silly thing,</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>Most people will make fun of you. Screw most people. Most people are blind and deaf. Most people aren't dumb though, they sure do talk. </span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>though they mysteriously seem less bothered by people memorizing performance statistics on football players or technical specifications of high performance automobiles. Like that’s more useful in the real world.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>Sounds like we had similar childhoods. </span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Right.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>There is no reason to do this. You don’t do it for a reason. You just do it. It proves something of yourself.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>This is actually the thing I wanted to argue about. These four sentences. There are a whole lot of good reasons &nbsp;for learning a conlang. One might be: having a language which a group of people can discuss in linguistic terms without anyone having the advantage that native speakers tend to have, or the converse disadvantage.</span><br><span></span><br><span>It also (as in the case of a language invented for something like Star Trek) gives us a way to find each other. The value of finding one another should not be underestimated.</span><br><span></span><br><span>I hope I haven't been out of line here.</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>P.S.</span><br><span></span><br><span>I walked into the local supermarket and there was a big poster with the Klingon flag. I thought that I'd realized that I was dreaming, because why would there be a Klingon flag at the supermarket, especially *right* after I'd decided to renew my effort to learn the language? It had to be a dream. Then I looked down, and saw a stock of Klingon Warhog beer. It's really not great (should be more aggressive flavor-wise) but it isn't the Pabst-in-a-Star-Trek-can that I was expecting. There's a bit of richness to the flavor. Not terrible, anyway. </span><br><span></span><br><span>Anyway, had three, did the idiot thing and posted on a mailing list afterwards...</span><br><span></span><br><span>Casey</span><br><span></span><br><span>P.P.S.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Duhhh</span></div></blockquote></body></html>
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