On 5/7/2014 3:49 AM, De'vID wrote:
Voragh:lujang meQboghnom 'oH, yeqchuqchu'taHghach Daw' je joqwI' They reply it is the {meQboghnom}, the banner of unity and revolution. PBSuStel:Notice the multiple suffixes preceding {-ghach}. Notice also the use of {jang} as a verb of saying, whose object is third-person singular.Actually, how do verbs of speech work with third-person plural subjects? Did Okrand ever cover this? He talks about first- and second-person prefixes with {jatlh} here: http://klingonska.org/canon/1997-06-29a-news.txt The rule is that if the speaker is first- or second-person, and it's a direct quotation, the prefix indicating no object is used (Presumably, this rule can be extended to other "verbs of speech".) But he doesn't say whether {lu-} or the null prefix is used if it's a direct quotation from a third-person plural subject, nor does he give examples of first- and second-person plural subjects. Perhaps it's impossible to give a direct quotation for a plural subject, since it's assumed impossible for multiple people to say exactly the same thing?
I think you're missing the point of his explanation. He's saying that the quotation is NOT the object of the verb of speech, so if someone "says," then use the null-prefix to indicate there is no object, as usual.
However, if your verb of speech has an object AND a quotation, use a prefix as normal to indicate the object. In paq'batlh {lujang} seems to be a verb of speech, so it means "they answer him/her/it," and the words spoken are smooshed against it in the usual way.
And here, he mentions that there are very few "verbs of speech", "like
{jatlh} and {ja'}":
http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-12-holqed-07-4.txt
Am I right to understand that the {lujang} example from PB implies
that (1) {jang} is a verb of speech, and (2) the answer is an indirect
quotation? (The English translation seems to support this.)
1. Yes. 2. No.{jang} has gone back and forth in canon regarding its verb-of-speechiness. At this point it looks like all of the {ja-} speech verbs of "verbs of speech."
-- SuStel http://www.trimboli.name/ _______________________________________________ Tlhingan-hol mailing list [email protected] http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol