tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 23 23:38:35 2014
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 3
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>>>> My mail program doesn’t let me quote text in an intelligent way. MY text is marked with >>><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Brad Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] <br><b>Sent:</b> March 23, 2014 19:07<br><b>To:</b> [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm not completely clear on which speech verbs use 'e' and which do not.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Does it depend on whether it's directly quoted speech or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>{yIH vImuS ja'} "I hate tribbles, he said"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>{yIH muS 'e' ja'} "He said that he hates tribbles"<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>>>> Only ja’ and jatlh are used as verbs of saying, and they don’t take ‘e’ when used for that purpose. Marc has contradicted the restriction to these two verbs of saying, using jang as a verb of saying in Power Klingon. There is a suggestion in this interview that ‘e’ might be used in attributed, non-quoted speech, but we’ve never seen it happen, AFAIK.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-12-hlqed-07-4.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Regarding noun-noun constructions, it would seem that a possessive should goes on the 2nd noun. {'Iw HIqDaj} sounds so much more correct than the macabre {'IwDaj HIq}.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I had written {HoSwIJ Hoch} but perhaps {HoS HochwIj} is more correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>About the alternative {HoSwIj naQ}. Does the possessive go on the noun like that, or on the verb-adjective as in {HoS naQwIj} ?</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br>>>> Put it on the item possessed by the possessor the suffix references. <br><br>>>> bu’wI’ HIp = my sergeant’s uniform, i.e. the uniform worn by the sergeant I report to or supervise.<br>>>> bu’ HIpwIj = my sergeant’s uniform, i.e. the uniform that belongs to me and denotes my rank as sergeant (or possibly the rank of the person I took it from)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>>> pe'vIl roS jIvang.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>> The purpose of {roS} here isn't clear<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I have from HQ 10.2 that {pe'vIl roS} is an adverbial idiom to convey agile, nimble or spry.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>>>> roS is a verb, and vang is another verb. You can’t put them both in the sentence there or they will fight to the death, leaving one. Choose the victor now. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Given that, I do prefer your rendering with nouns - the repetition is quite satisfying.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>> SIQmeH Seghchaj 'Iq DowIj, 'Iq laHwIj, 'Iq QobwIj<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I take your point about my use of {tlhop'a'}.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Are there any restrictions to placing noun suffixes on pronouns?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Could I say {SoH'a' tlhop} "in front of your greatness"?</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>.<br><br>>>> Reading it, I would be confused and then suppose you were referring to some spirit of you-ness bigger than merely you. The tool for what you want to do is -neS<br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>How about belittling someone with {-Hom} on a pronoun?</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>>>> It would read more as “mini-you” not “you, whom I insult.”<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>>> HoSghajchu' 'e' vIvItchugh<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I think what I meant to say was {HoSghajchu' 'e' DavItchugh} "If you tell the truth that he is so powerful"<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>>>> I’m not used to seeing the truth as the object of vIt. I wouldn’t use it that way, but can’t outright reject the idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>- Qov</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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