tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 23 23:38:35 2014

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing



[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 3

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']



<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"; xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
	margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>&gt;&gt;&gt; My mail program doesn&#8217;t let me quote text in an intelligent way. MY text is marked with &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Brad Wilson [mailto:[email protected]] <br><b>Sent:</b> March 23, 2014 19:07<br><b>To:</b> [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm not completely clear on which speech verbs use 'e' and which do not.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Does it depend on whether it's directly quoted speech or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>{yIH vImuS ja'} &quot;I hate tribbles, he said&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>{yIH muS 'e' ja'} &quot;He said that he hates tribbles&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&gt;&gt;&gt; Only ja&#8217; and jatlh are used as verbs of saying, and they don&#8217;t &nbsp;take &#8216;e&#8217; when used for that purpose. Marc has contradicted the restriction to these two verbs of saying, using jang as a verb of saying in Power Klingon. There is a suggestion in this interview that &#8216;e&#8217; might be used in attributed, non-quoted speech, but we&#8217;ve never seen it happen, AFAIK.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-12-hlqed-07-4.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Regarding noun-noun constructions, it would seem that a possessive should goes on the 2nd noun. {'Iw HIqDaj} sounds so much more correct than the macabre {'IwDaj HIq}.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I had written {HoSwIJ Hoch} but perhaps {HoS HochwIj} is more correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>About the alternative {HoSwIj naQ}. Does the possessive go on the noun like that, or on the verb-adjective as in {HoS naQwIj} ?</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Put it on the item possessed by the possessor the suffix references. <br><br>&gt;&gt;&gt; bu&#8217;wI&#8217; HIp = my sergeant&#8217;s uniform, i.e. the uniform worn by the sergeant I report to or supervise.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; bu&#8217; HIpwIj = my sergeant&#8217;s uniform, i.e. the uniform that belongs to me and denotes my rank as sergeant (or possibly the rank of the person I took it from)</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&gt;&gt; pe'vIl roS jIvang.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&gt; The purpose of {roS} here isn't clear<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I have from HQ 10.2 that {pe'vIl roS} is an adverbial idiom to convey agile, nimble or spry.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&gt;&gt;&gt; roS is a verb, and vang is another verb. You can&#8217;t put them both in the sentence there or they will fight to the death, leaving one. Choose the victor now. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Given that, I do prefer your rendering with nouns - the repetition is quite satisfying.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&gt; SIQmeH Seghchaj 'Iq DowIj, 'Iq laHwIj, 'Iq QobwIj<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I take your point about my use of {tlhop'a'}.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Are there any restrictions to placing noun suffixes on pronouns?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Could I say {SoH'a' tlhop} &quot;in front of your greatness&quot;?</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>.<br><br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Reading it, I would be confused and then suppose you were referring to some spirit of you-ness bigger than merely you. The tool for what you want to do is -neS<br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>How about belittling someone with {-Hom} on a pronoun?</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&gt;&gt;&gt; It would read more as &#8220;mini-you&#8221; not &#8220;you, whom I insult.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&gt;&gt; HoSghajchu' 'e' vIvItchugh<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I think what I meant to say was {HoSghajchu' 'e' DavItchugh}&nbsp;&quot;If you tell the truth that he is so powerful&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&gt;&gt;&gt; I&#8217;m not used to seeing the truth as the object of vIt. &nbsp;I wouldn&#8217;t use it that way, but can&#8217;t outright reject the idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>- Qov</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
[email protected]
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol


Back to archive top level