tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 09 03:39:26 2014

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Last X and testament?

Rohan Fenwick ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>ghItlhpu' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, jatlh:<br><div><div>&gt; I feel certain that one of the functions of every House is to defend<br>&gt; the interests of the House, including the property of all who die<br>&gt; within it. I would not expect lawyers to be involved.<br><br>Lawyers need not be involved, but surely there is a way for a living person to directly place legitimate orders to be followed in the event of their death. Also, not only are all Klingons not born into Houses, but the interests of the House can be and often are overridden by dictates of the High Council, presumably acting under Klingon law; such events explicitly include at least some concept of legally-enforced property rights. The section of KGT on "Societal Variation" (pp.36-43) includes a couple of relevant passages:<br><br>"[T]here are clear distinctions between those with great wealth and influence and those with little or none. This sort of status is a matter of inheritance." (KGT p.36)<br><br>"If the High Council determines an action to be dishonorable, not only may it remove the leader of a house from the Council itself, it may also seize the house's lands, forces, and other holdings." (KGT p.38)<br><br>There's also the DS9 episode "The House of Quark", in which Quark marries the Klingon woman Grilka to allow her to protect her late husband's property long enough to plead extenuating circumstances to the Council and allow her to inherit, another indication that the Council is at least capable of exercising jurisdiction over inheritance matters.<br></div><div><br></div><div>taH:<br>&gt; There’s never been a suggestion that any Klingon feels debt to<br>&gt; follow the orders of the dead.<br><br>Azetbur's continued championing of the wishes of her late father Gorkon (ST6). Which isn't even orders, but she still feels that her father's wishes are worthwhile following. That his body is an empty shell says nothing about his spirit.<br><br>&gt; The whole point of winning a contest to the death is to be the guy<br>&gt; still standing who gets to tell others what to do. When you lose such<br>&gt; a contest, your pre-posthumus wishes don’t linger longer than you did.<br><br>But your antemortem actions *do*, as indicated by the proverb I cited before, and surely the giving of a lawful order before one's death for the bequest of one's resources is enough to constitute such an action.<br></div><div><br></div><div>&gt; Succession is more important than property rights, since those who<br>&gt; succeed make choices as to who defends what property for whom.<br><br>Succession and property rights in Klingon thought are both properly matters of inheritance, as KGT p.36 indicates, and if anything KGT p.38 indicates that property rights are *more* the arena of law (being subject to nullification by the High Council in appropriate legal circumstances) than succession is.<br><br>&gt; If a successor has challengers and the challenger wins, then there<br>&gt; is a new successor, regardless of the wishes of the original leader.<br><br>Assuming that the appropriate traditions and laws have been followed, of course. The only clear example we have is the {bIreqtal}, but in that instance the vanquisher of the leader of a House must marry the dead leader's widow to lawfully become leader of that House. This is another instance in which the actions of a living person continue to play a role post-mortem: otherwise a woman whose husband dies should merely be treated as an unmarried woman, and has no special standing in terms of House politics.<br></div><div><br></div><div>&gt; Who would defend the rights of orphans and widows and widowers?<br>&gt; The House, not the law.<br><br>I imagine that Klingons' orders for the bequest of their estate after they die would normally be appropriately followed by most Houses, but that doesn't mean that such orders haven't been given. Taking your example further, moreover, if the House acts dishonourably in dealing with the orphans and widows and widowers under its care, then 
yes, the Council and thereby the law would step in, as judging of 
dishonourable actions is a part of the Council's remit. Why should matters of inheritance be any different?<br><br>QeS<br></div></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
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