tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 03 03:02:38 2014
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] before now
<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:18pt"><span>Hence my other choice of <span style="font-weight: bold;">qaSpa' </span></span><span style="font-weight: bold;">poHvam</span><span> <span style="font-style: italic;">before this time </span><span style="font-style: italic;">had occurred</span> ...</span><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br><br>wej</span><span> <span style="font-style: italic;">not yet</span><span> infers</span> that the moment of transition has not occurred yet, but the <span style="font-style: italic;">before now</span><span> construction</span></span> indicates that the moment of transition is in the past: it has already happened. <span style="font-weight: bold;">wej</span> <span style="font-style: italic;">not yet</span>
could be used, but I'd recommend that you use the perfective suffix <span style="font-weight: bold;">-pu'</span> on
the verb describing action that you had not yet done, so as to indicate the point of transition having been in the past, and not still to come in the future.<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 24px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: italic;"><br><span><span><span><span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 24px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">qaSpu' poHvam not tera'ngan vISuv</span></span></span></span></span><span> <span style="font-style: italic;">Before</span></span><span style="font-style: italic;"> this moment, I had never fought a Terran</span><span>.</span></span></span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 24px; font-family: garamond,new
york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><span><span><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">wej tera'ngan vISuvpu'</span><span> <span style="font-style: italic;">I had not yet fought a Terran</span><span>. You could also say <span style="font-style: italic;">I had yet to fight a Terran</span><span>.</span><br></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 24px; font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div>The <span style="font-weight: bold;">wej</span> <span style="font-style: italic;">not yet</span><span> construction also infers that the event had been on the cards all along - the person was aware that he was going to write that manuscript, or fight a Terran. <span style="font-weight: bold;">not</span><span> <span style="font-style: italic;">never</span><span> tends to lean towards a more stochastic approach -
there had been no plans to write manuscripts or fight Terrans: but hey, stuff happens.</span></span></span><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <br> <br> <div style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 18pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday, 3 March 2014, 8:42, De'vID <[email protected]> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div class="y_msg_container">De'vID:<br clear="none">> How would you express "before now"? "I haven't done this (e.g., written a<br clear="none">> manuscript) before now."<br clear="none">> {ret not ghItlh vIqon}? Can {ret} be used by itself as a time stamp, and can<br clear="none">> it precede an adverbial {not}?<br
clear="none"><br clear="none">Fiat Knox:<br clear="none">> Would {qaSpa' DaH} or {qaSpa' poHvam} work for you?<br clear="none">> {qaSpa' DaHjaj not tera'ngan vISuv} "Before today, I had never fought a<br clear="none">> Terran."<br clear="none">> {qaSpa' poHvam DuH Dochvetlh 'e' not vIqel} "Before now, I had never<br clear="none">> considered that that was possible."<br clear="none">> {qaSpa' DaH not leghlu'} "It had never been seen before now."<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Is {DaH} a thing that can {qaS}? My intuition says that the subject of<br clear="none">{qaS} is an event, or at least something that has a well-defined<br clear="none">beginning, middle, and end in time. But I have no evidence either way<br clear="none">whether {DaH} can be the subject of {qaS} or not.<div class="yqt5569902691" id="yqtfd55482"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">De'vID<br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </blockquote> </div>
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