tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 03 01:36:56 2014

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] before now

De'vID ([email protected]) 

De'vID:
>>>>     How would you express "before now"? "I haven't done
>>>> this (e.g., written a manuscript) before now."
>>>>
>>>>     {ret not ghItlh vIqon}? Can {ret} be used by itself as
>>>> a time stamp, and can it precede an adverbial {not}?

SuStel:
>>>      wej vIta'pu'.
>>>      wej ghItlh vIqonpu'

It doesn't quite have the same sense or emphasis, though. {wej} "not
yet" connotes a sense of anticipation that "not before now" does not.

"I haven't yet done it" suggests that the speaker intends to do it,
but hasn't yet. But "I haven't done it before now" implies nothing
either way - perhaps the speaker intends to do it, but perhaps not.

Actually, the sentence I'm translating is something like this (the
original is not in English): "I haven't written on this topic before
now, but now I have for the first time." (The implication is that the
speaker had previously only verbally lectured on the topic, and is
putting his lessons into writing for the first time, which the reader
is now holding in his/her hands.)

So at some prior point in time (before the completion of the book),
the speaker had never written on the topic. But at the moment, as the
reader is holding the book, the speaker (writer) obviously has
completed this task.

{wej ghItlh vIqonpu'} wouldn't be true in this case. It was true just
prior (i.e., "before now") to the completion of the book which the
reader is holding.

lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh:
>> DaH ghItlh vIqonpu'be'.
>> I am not at the time of speaking in the state of having
>> completed writing a manuscript. Since the time stamp is
>> "now", the perfective covers any past events.
> ...
>> Given the font change and header information, I skipped right
>> past David Trimboli's excellent recommendation of using
>> {wej}. It's spot on.

{DaH ghItlh vIqonpu'be'} wouldn't work for my situation either. The
author has in fact finished the book. But moments prior to finishing
the book, he had never written (in the sense of having completed a
piece of writing which is then made public) on the topic.

(I suppose there is a bit of literary flourish as he's written as if
the entire book was written in one continuous sitting or indivisible
event, so that prior to beginning it he had never written on the topic
before, and just after finishing it, he has.)

DloraH:
> wej does work as long as the context clears the ambiguity.
> Sally, "I wrote a book."
> Jack, "I wrote four books."
> Bob, ... well, is Bob saying that he has not yet written his book, or did he write three?
> Yes, sometimes context is enough to determine which is ment.
> Using the negated perfective in the present helps if Bob's quote above could be taken either way.

I think maybe you dropped Bob's quote, unless I'm not understanding
what Bob said?

-- 
De'vID

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