tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Mar 01 13:18:53 2014

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] before now

lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh ([email protected]) 

<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>Interesting issue. I’d personally think that starting a sentence with {ret not} seems like using two different time stamps. It’s confusing.</div><div><br></div><div>I’d just say:</div><div><br></div><div>not ghItlh vIqonpu’.</div><div><br></div><div>At no time have I been in the state of having completed the process of writing a manuscript. One could interpret this as a statement about the foreseeable future as well, since “never” isn’t limited to the past.</div><div><br></div><div>or</div><div><br></div><div>DaH ghItlh vIqonpu’be’.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not at the time of speaking in the state of having completed writing a manuscript. Since the time stamp is “now”, the perfective covers any past events.</div><div><br></div><div>It’s less clear to try to use {ret} as a time stamp here:</div><div><br></div><div>ret ghItlh vIqonbe’.</div><div><br></div><div>That just says that at some time before now, I didn’t write a manuscript. It doesn’t say anything about all those other time periods before now.</div><div><br></div><div>{ret} is more useful for positive statements, like:</div><div><br></div><div>ret ghItlh vIqonpu’.</div><div><br></div><div>This lets you know that I wrote a manuscript and finished it at some unspecified time in the past. I’m not talking about a manuscript I just finished today. I’m not talking about a manuscript I haven’t finished yet, but intend to finish real soon now, like:</div><div><br></div><div>wa’leS ghItlh vIqonpu’.</div><div><br></div><div>I will have finished the manuscript tomorrow.</div><div><br></div><div>The time stamp indicates a point on the time line, and the perfective points an arrow toward the past from that point. The event of the verb occurs in that direction relative to the point on the time line.</div><div><br></div><div>{not} is the time equivalent of the math concept “null”. There is no point on the timeline that {not} indicates. It indicates that there isn’t a point on the timeline when the statement is true or when the command should be executed. {ret} vaguely specifies some point in time before {DaH}, and {DaH} points to the spot on the time line when it is uttered.</div><div><br></div><div>{ret not} is like saying that there is a point on the time line before now, but there is no point on the time line at all. I wouldn’t know how to interpret it.</div><div><br></div><div>
<div><div>lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh</div><div>Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably</div></div><div><br></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br><div><div>On Mar 1, 2014, at 10:22 AM, David Trimboli &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">wej vIta'pu'.<br>wej ghItlh vIqonpu'</div></div>
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<span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:[email protected]";>De'vID</a></span><br><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">‎3/‎1/‎2014 6:29 AM</span><br><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:[email protected]";>KLI</a></span><br><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">[Tlhingan-hol] before now</span><br><br></div><p dir="ltr">How would you express "before now"? "I haven't done this (e.g., written a manuscript) before now."</p><p dir="ltr">{ret not ghItlh vIqon}? Can {ret} be used by itself as a time stamp, and can it precede an adverbial {not}?</p><p dir="ltr">-- <br>De'vID</p></div>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br><a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br>http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>
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