tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jun 27 08:51:23 2014

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] vagh jaj, vagh 'uy' DarSeq je

Brent Kesler ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Gaerfindel <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]"; target="_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
P.S.  I know the comparative it wonky, but I couldn&#39;t think of a better way to express the need to fmore money that would accomplish more.  Any suggestions are most welcome!<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div>


<div>I was wondering about comparatives just last night.  Here&#39;s my general thinking. It&#39;s easy when the comparison is a straightforward &quot;This noun is more adjective than that noun.&quot; For example:</div>

<div><br></div><div>   1. <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">batlh potlh law&#39; yIn potlh puS [TKW]</span></div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">       Honor is more important than life.</span><div>

<br></div><div><br></div><div>It gets a little more complicated when you want to compare ideas rather than just nouns.</div>
<div><br></div><div>   2. QamvIS Hegh qaq law&#39;, torvIS yIn qaq puS [TKW]</div><div>       Better to die on our feet than live on our knees.</div><div><br></div><div>We can dissect this all day, I&#39;m sure. We could see {QamvIS Hegh} and {torvIS yIn} as noun phrases, that way they fit the standard [A Q law&#39;, B Q puS] formula. So far so good.</div>
<div><br></div><div>However, there is a certain kind of comparative that comes naturally to me in English that I struggle with in Klingon: &quot;This noun verbs a more adjective something than that noun verbs.&quot; Specifically, I&#39;ve been trying to write something like &quot;Riders on horseback can dominate a larger territory than an army on foot.&quot; I came up with this:</div>
<div><br></div><div>   3. ? yer&#39;e&#39; lughatlhlaH Sargh lIghwI&#39;pu&#39; tIn law&#39;, (yer&#39;e&#39;) ghatlhlaH yItnISbogh mangghom tIn puS.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Here&#39;s my thinking. Look back at sentence 2. We could see {QamvIS Hegh} and {torvIS yIn} as sentences, while {qaq law&#39;} and {qaq puS} are &quot;comparative commentaries&quot; on those sentences. I expect a lot of people here will find that controversial.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So let&#39;s try a more conventional approach:</div><div><br></div><div>   4. ? yer&#39;e&#39; lughatlhlaHbogh Sargh lIghwI&#39;pu&#39; tIn law&#39;, (yer&#39;e&#39;) ghatlhlaHbogh mangghom tIn puS.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>This is mostly straightforward. I&#39;ve recast &quot;This noun verbs a more adjective something than that noun verbs&quot; into &quot;The something which this noun verbs is more adjective than the something which that noun verbs.&quot; I&#39;ve used {-bogh} to turn my sentences into noun phrases which fit into the standard formula.</div>
<div><br></div><div>But I don&#39;t like this strategy. I&#39;ve always found verbs that have both {-bogh} and an object to be awkward, so I avoid them. Also, notice that in sentence 4 I deleted a word that I used in sentence 3.</div>
<div><br></div><div>   3a. yer&#39;e&#39; ghatlhlaH yItnISbogh mangghom</div><div>         An army which must walk dominates a territory.</div><div><br></div><div>   4a. yer&#39;e&#39; ghatlhlaHbogh mangghom</div><div>         The territory which an army dominates.</div>
<div><br></div><div>   4b. ? yer&#39;e&#39; ghatlhlaHbogh yItnISbogh mangghom</div><div>         The territory that is dominated by an army which must walk.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>That {yItnISbogh} is a key part of the idea I&#39;m trying to communicate. it&#39;s doubtful that riders on horseback can control a larger territory than any army in general; it&#39;s important to specify that the army is *on foot*. I&#39;m already trying to avoid {-bogh} and now I&#39;m using it twice! And I&#39;m not even sure it&#39;s grammatical. So I prefer sentence 3 over sentence 4.</div>
<div><br></div><div><div>At this point, I&#39;m thinking a comparative is not the best strategy for my sentence. Perhaps I should try something like this:</div></div><div><br></div><div>   5. yer tIn ghatlhlaH yItnISbogh mangghom, &#39;ach yer tInqu&#39; lughatlhlaH Sargh lIghwI&#39;pu&#39;.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>But do I really mean to say that an army on foot can control a large territory? Not really, just that the riders on horseback can control a larger one.</div><div><br></div><div>  6. yer mach ghatlhlaH yItnISbogh mangghom, &#39;ach yer tIn lughatlhlaH Sargh lIghwI&#39;pu&#39;.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>But do I really mean to imply that an army on foot can only control a small territory? Not really, only that it will be smaller than the territory that riders on horseback can control.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Sentences 5 and 6 aren&#39;t as precise as I would like them to be, but they&#39;re a lot less awkward than my attempted comparatives.</div><div><br></div><div>But there&#39;s another sort of comparative that&#39;s easier to state in English than in Klingon: &quot;This noun verbs more adverbly than that noun.&quot;</div>
<div><br></div><div>   7. nom puv DujwIj</div><div>       My ship flies quickly.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>But how to say, &quot;My ship flies faster than your ship&quot;? There are no verbs of quality meaning &quot;be fast&quot; or &quot;be slow&quot; (at least, I can&#39;t find any). But there are adverbs {nom} and {QIt}.</div>
<div><br></div><div>   8. nom puv DujwIj, &#39;ej QIt puv DujlIj.</div><div>       My ship flies quickly, and your ship flies slowly.</div><div><br></div><div>But do I really mean to say your ship is slow? [sigh] Not really.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>bI&#39;reng</div>
</div></div></div>

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