tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 23 07:00:22 2014

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] ghargh Doq, HuD je -- wej vI' wa'

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

Okrand:

 "English words like "east" and "southwest" are, as noted, just convenient
tags for what the Klingon words mean. Since {chan} actually refers to that
part of the landscape in the direction of the sunrise, "east" is a
reasonable English counterpart. The standard translations of {'ev} and
{tIng} follow from the  standard translation of {chan}. But Klingon {chan}
does not work the same as English "east." From the Klingon point of view, it
makes no sense to say that something is "in the east." One can go towards
the east, something can be to the east of something else, but nothing can
actually be "in" the east. No matter how far eastward you go, there's
something still to your east. Thus the awkward translations "area eastward,
area towards the east" and so forth. (And, of course, the same can be said
for the other directions.)"

I don't see any examples where the direction is not given relative to
something.

- Qov

-----Original Message-----
From: SuStel [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: June 23, 2014 6:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] ghargh Doq, HuD je -- wej vI' wa'

On 6/23/2014 6:14 AM, Gaerfindel wrote:
> On 6/23/2014 12:51 AM, Robyn Stewart wrote:
>> {yuQ tIng 'evDaq, *Westeros* Soch Sepmey tu'lu}
>>
>> "In the western lands of the world are the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros."
>>
>> Given that the western part of a planet is damned arbitrary, consider 
>> simplifying the directions. Klingon does not have the concept of 
>> something being "in" in the west. You can only be west of something 
>> or go west.
>
> Yeah, I ran into some trouble with this.  The map of the wolrd, when 
> laid out flat, shows the continents of Westeros in (naturally) the 
> west, and Essos in the east.  Might there be some better way to convey 
> this?

I'm going to disagree with Qov here. {'ev} "northwestward, area to the
northwest," {tIng} "southwestward, area toward the southwest," and {chan}
"eastward, area toward the east" seem to me to act the same as {bIng} "area
below, area under" and {Dung} "area above, area overhead," 
and others. These words can mean "area toward <wherever>" or "area that is
<wherever>." I have no problem with {'evDaq} being "in the area to the
northwest," and so on, and thus I have no problem with {tIng 'evDaq} "in the
area to the west."

It's true that what is "west" on a planet is arbitrary, but this
arbitrariness is common. We have a Western Hemisphere and an Eastern
Hemisphere. I'm not familiar with Game of Thrones either, but it's clear
just from the names that the inhabitants imagine their planet in the same
way.

>> {ta' Seppu'ghach pong 'oH}
>>
>> That's a hideously ugly name in a hideously formatted sentence. I 
>> can't find any evidence that "Landing" in that sense means 
>> Seppu'ghach ("Bredness"?).
>> This page
>> http://www.englishforums.com/English/KingsLanding/zdqwv/post.htm
>> suggests it means what most people would assume it means. Why don't 
>> you go with vergh, the way most people would interpret the English?
>>
> jang De'vID:
>
> ghaytan {Saq} {Sep} je mISmoH. But even then, *{Saqpu'ghach} would 
> mean something like "having-landed-ness" rather than a "landing" in 
> the sense of a ship dock.
>
>
> De'vId is correct.  (The typo daemon strikes again!)  I think I'll 
> just call King's Landing *King's Landing* and be done with it.  Give a 
> sentence or two to describe how it came to be named so, and leave it 
> at that.

Klingon names don't have to be noun phrases. You might call the place {Saq
ta'} "the emperor lands" or {Saqpu' ta'} "the emperor landed." (Is a king a
{ta'Hom}? Or maybe a {che'wI'}?)

--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/

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