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[Tlhingan-hol] Objects with -moH

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Below is an excerpt from the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">online course lesson where I introduce &#8211;moH.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> My aim is to keep my own opinions out of the course, and to teach the student</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">only what we KNOW, for the most part avoiding the unknown entirely. It&#8217;s not really fair to introduce &#8211;moH</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">and</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">not mention anything about using it with indirect objects.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">Canon</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> and some previous discussions are referenced at the bottom.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> I am not trying to reinvent the wheel here.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
<BR>
<FONT FACE="Calibri">I&#8217;m not looking for more o</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">pinions or theories or justifications on how &#8211;moH should work. The existence of civil disagreement among competent Klingonists is enough for me not to declare for o</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">ne idea or the other. The suffix &#8211;vaD is not included in the level one grammar, so there&#8217;s no reason to go there. I&#8217;m just checking that I haven&#8217;t missed some canon that resolves this</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">, and for opinions-expert or beginner&#8212;on the leve</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">l of information</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">included. Is there more beginners should know?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">Should I be more terse and simply say that canon is ambiguous on the object of this type of</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">verb?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
<FONT FACE="Calibri">---</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
<FONT FACE="Calibri">Things can get more complicated when &#8211;moH is used on a verb that could already take an object. This is an area where we don't have all the answers. For example</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">, the word &lt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">ghojmoH</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> is formed from</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">&lt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">ghoj</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8220;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">learn</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> plus &#8211;moH, and means</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8220;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">cause to learn</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">, normally translated as</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8220;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">teach, instruct.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> It even has its own listing in TKD as such. But what is the object of ghojmoH? </FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Is it the student? That would seem to make sense.&nbsp;<BR>
ghoj puq. &#8211; The child learns.<BR>
?puq ghojmoH SoS. &#8211; The mother causes the child to learn./The mother teaches the child.<BR>
We have evidence that this is the correct form, as in Power Klingon</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">we hear the form</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">&lt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">qaghojmoH</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> I instruct you.<BR>
<BR>
Confusingly, we also have text written by Marc Okrand on a licenced trading card, which suggests that the object doesn't necessarily change when &#8211;moH is added to a verb.&nbsp; The object of ghojmoH may be the same as the object of ghoj: the thing learned.<BR>
<BR>
pab ghoj puq. &#8211; The child learns grammar.<BR>
?pab ghojmoH SoS. &#8211; The mother teaches grammar.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Maybe it can be either. We have other tools for indicating the second object of the verb, but they, and a full discussion of this question, are beyond the scope of this course. The purpose of this digression is to explain why this course doesn't include instructions on using such objects, and to give you some insight into how we know things about the Klingon language.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Reference:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">TKD 4.2.4 p.38 Type 4: Cause<BR>
</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Skybox card S20 - ghaHvaD quHDaj qawmoH.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Power Klingon - batlh qaghojmoH<BR>
Okrand</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> </SPAN><A HREF="http://mughom.wikia.com/wiki/MSN?action=edit&amp;redlink=1";><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">MSN</FONT></U></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">, 6/97 &#8211; Prefix trick</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Also perused:<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN><A HREF="http://www.klingon.org/smboard/index.php?topic=556.25;wap2";><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="Calibri">http://www.klingon.org/smboard/index.php?topic=556.25;wap2</FONT></U></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
</SPAN><A HREF="http://diswww.mit.edu/charon.MIT.EDU/ja%27chuq/85069";><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="Calibri">http://diswww.mit.edu/charon.MIT.EDU/ja%27chuq/85069</FONT></U></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
</SPAN><A HREF="http://diswww.mit.edu/charon.MIT.EDU/ja%27chuq/93042";><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="Calibri">http://diswww.mit.edu/charon.MIT.EDU/ja%27chuq/93042</FONT></U></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> </SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">- Qov</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

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