tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Dec 17 13:43:25 2014
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists
I find it somewhat fascinating that people who have not gone to the trouble of actually learning how to speak basic sentences in Klingon can become so fixated on individual Klingon words they don’t know how to use.
I’m not assuming that anyone in this discussion is in this condition, but one side of the argument definitely seems to seek authority by speaking up for some fictitious newbie who doesn’t understand the language, yet isn’t already so busy dealing with canon words that he has to get massively confused if he runs into a fake word from some clueless, mass media source.
If that guy actually exists, we don’t need to explain to him the reason that we don’t accept each pile of characters that anyone has ever claimed was a Klingon word. We just need to teach that person where the real Klingon words can be found.
It really is okay to tell him or her, “Don’t pay any attention to words that claim to be Klingon if they aren’t on a vetted list.” And if anyone here makes a habit of creating and distributing a dictionary that includes non-vetted words, we need to make it clear to anyone new that this persons’s list is not vetted and that you cannot rely on its definitions and word lists. If the word doesn’t have Marc Okrand as a source, with a citation as to where Marc revealed this word to the rest of us, then it’s not a Klingon word, no matter what anybody says about it.
lojmIt tI’wI’ nuv ‘utlh
Retired Door Repair Guy
> On Dec 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, PICHLMANN Christoph <Christoph.PICHLMANN@agrana.com> wrote:
> How many beginners actually know of these lists? Is it reasonable to expect that someone new will know to look for all that, and know that they're trustworthy and/or current?
> From the list, I'd trust maybe 2 or three to have new words in them. (boQwI', qepHom and maybe mu'ghom - the last one only because I know it's trustworthy)
> The rest I either don't know or wouldn't trust to be updated.
> I don't see how people can learn fake words when all they get is "XYZ is not a klingon word". No attempted translation, just that the word isn't real, but for some reason is known enough for someone to stumble across it.
> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:32:29 +0100
> From: Lieven <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> To: "email@example.com"
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists
> Message-ID: <5490265D.firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> ja' reyutqa':
>> Let's take "tlhoqo' " as an example - I just searched for it (using Google).
>> Judging by the results I got, I have no way to know if it is canon
>> or not, because no source explicitely says either way.
>> boQwI' also doesn't list it, neither does Klingonska.org -
>> so what is the conclusion I'm supposed to draw from that?
> Actually, you should know or see which sources to trust.
> The only true result gives you a page with hundreds of languages and
> claims to have "native" klingon speakers. (well, actually, we know most
> of these). I'm not sure how much to trust this.
> You don't find it in boQwI'.
> You don't find it in the klingon dictionary.
> You don't find it in klingonska.org.
> You don't find it in kli.org's new word list.
> You don't find it in qepHom.de's new word list.
> You don't find it in KAG Hol 'ampaS.
> You don't find it in the KLI's wiki.
> You don't find it in Memory Alpha.
> You don't find it in Memory Beta.
> You don't find it in GerDic Dictionary.
> You don't find it in mu'ghom.Wikia.
> You don't find it in Glosbe.com dictionary.
> If you have difficulties finding a word in the web, there must be a
> reason for this. For instance, note the Wikipedia policy: They
> explicitely do NOT set up pages for incorrectly spelled words, just to
> make clear for the user that the word is just not existing. Only very
> frequent misspellings are shown ("Diphtong" forwards to "Diphthong", but
> "diftong" does not give an answer), but if the word does not exist in
> proper english (or proper Klingon), it's just not listed.
> What I want to say is that one should not spread fake words, which
> people will learn, then use, and then Okrand must vet them because they
> have become common slang terms. We don't want to have a day when people
> say that Okrand created a klingon word for asshole which is tlhoqo'.
> It's a negative image for both Okrand and for Kloko.
> See what happened with "qaqItlhneS"!
> Search for it to find out.
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
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