tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 15 04:51:07 2014

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing



[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: [Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists

Felix Malmenbeck (felixm@kth.se)



> But in the end, it's in the app, and a user who wasn't here at the
> time doesn't know why the app can't find the word.

I get that one would want it in there to make it easier for new learners to parse sentences that include these words, but in the end, I think the use of these words is rare enough that the potential for generating confusion greatly outweighs the potential utility.

________________________________________
From: PICHLMANN Christoph [Christoph.PICHLMANN@agrana.com]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 13:19
To: Felix Malmenbeck; tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: RE: [Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists

>Well, De'vID is having an open discussion about it in this forum (and on Facebook, as well), so the process is already quite transparent. I >personally think that's a more appropriate method than putting that discussion in the actual dictionary.

Yes, putting it here and on Facebook is great and for the moment very transparent and interactive.

But in the end, it's in the app, and a user who wasn't here at the time doesn't know why the app can't find the word.


-----Original Message-----
From: Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:15 PM
To: PICHLMANN Christoph; tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: RE: [Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists

> Hence my suggestion of acknowleding that it exists but also declaring it to be wrong.

In the case of slang, I wouldn't say it's necessarily even wrong, as such, but if boQwI''s purpose is to teach canonical Klingon, it is outside of its scope.

So, perhaps a better journal analogy wouldn't be submitting pseudoscience to a peer-reviewed science journal, but rather, it'd be like submitting a creative writing piece; there's nothing *wrong* with it, but rather, it simply doesn't belong there to begin with.

> Hence my suggestion of acknowleding that it exists but also declaring it to be wrong.
> Not sure how that would translate to the journal, though. In that case
> I'd probably want to see an article explaining WHY the pseudoscientific junk is exactly that.

Well, De'vID is having an open discussion about it in this forum (and on Facebook, as well), so the process is already quite transparent. I personally think that's a more appropriate method than putting that discussion in the actual dictionary.

//loghaD

________________________________________
From: PICHLMANN Christoph [Christoph.PICHLMANN@agrana.com]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:41
To: Felix Malmenbeck; tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: RE: [Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists

I fear this could end up as an endless discussion, we're starting from differing points of view that essentially seem to go in the same direction.

To use your journal analogy - at the same time it could be said that you're hiding the pseudoscientific text because you don't want the general public to know about it. (Pseudoscience, paranoia, conspiracy - it all melts together sooner or later...)

No one knows your reasoning - all they see is "I have heard of X, but it doesn't appear in Y."

Hence my suggestion of acknowleding that it exists but also declaring it to be wrong. Not sure how that would translate to the journal, though. In that case I'd probably want to see an article explaining WHY the pseudoscientific junk is exactly that.
(Not that it'd convert the fanatics, but those on the edge might see the reason).

reyutqa'

-----Original Message-----
From: Felix Malmenbeck [mailto:felixm@kth.se]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:31 PM
To: PICHLMANN Christoph; tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: RE: [Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists

I wouldn't really describe this as hiding the words; nobody's trying to make it more difficult for people to research these terms on their own, or to purge old records of these words. Rather, it's choosing not to unduly highlight it.

I would say it's akin to not printing pseudoscience in a scientific journal: You're not shutting down the author, or preventing them from publishing their work on their own, but rather you acknowledge that publishing it in your journal would elevate that work to greater prominence than it deserves.

//loghaD

________________________________________
From: PICHLMANN Christoph [Christoph.PICHLMANN@agrana.com]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:18
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] keeping "KLI folklore" words in word lists

I'm not a fan of hiding information, even if it's for the assumed best of the user. I don't think it works in the long run.

While I agree with the problems, I don't think pretending those sounds have never been said doesn't solve them.

How about having an entry for the "klingon" word that merely reads "NOT CANON" ? Enough to acknowledge that yes, these sounds have been said, but no, they're not klingon.
It'll keep an uninformed user from using it, and others can then use other sources (i.e. the internet) to find out what's up with them.
But both can look up the word should they stumble across it, and don't have to assume that the program is outdated/incomplete.

Or have the explanation visible once you tap the "NOT CANON" if that's possible easily.

Christoph

_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol

_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol



Back to archive top level