tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 16 06:26:12 2014

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past

De'vID ([email protected]) 

'eD:
> Are these compatible with Type 7 suffixes?
> For instance, what would ?{bIDachtaHvIS, Duj yImuItlhchoHpu'} mean? "While
> you were away, I started to construct a ship," or, "While you were away, I
> started and finished constructing a ship." Or is it just bad Klingon?

Note: The suffix {-pu'} tells you nothing about whether the *ship*
itself is completed, only that your action (of constructing it) is
completed. Be careful not to shift the meaning from the verb over to
the noun. In a similar way, {-choH} doesn't mean that the *ship*
wasn't being constructed before, but that your action was not
ship-construction before. A subtle but important difference.

De'vID:
> Q: ghorgh tujchoHpu' bIQ?
> A: bIDachtaHvIS, tujchoHpu' bIQ

SuStel:
> How does this differ from
>
> Q: ghorgh tujchoH bIQ?
> A: bIDachtaHvIS tujchoH bIQ.
>
> ?

Same difference as between {bIDachtaHvIS, Duj vImutlhchoH} and
{bIDachtaHvIS, Duj vImutlhchoHpu'}.

'eD:
> I take it you would interpret {tujchoHpu'} as something like "finish becoming hot."

Nope. No more than I take {Duj vImutlhchoHpu'} to mean "finish
switching to build a ship", which would be the analogous
interpretation.

I should just leave it at that...

.
.
.

... but I suppose I'll be asked to elaborate.

ghorgh tujchoH bIQ? = when does [or did or will] water become hot?
(This is not referring to a specific completed action. Lacking a
type-7 suffix, it may for example be a general statement about water.)
bIQDaq vI'DI' HoS, tujchoH = water becomes hot as soon as energy
accumulates in it.
bIDachtaHvIS, tujchoH bIQ = water gets hot while you're away (for
example, you are an energy being with the property that water heats up
when you leave)

ghorgh tujchoHpu' bIQ? = when will the water be hot? (or: when did the
water get hot?) (This is referring to a specific completed "action" of
water being hot.)
pubwI' rIHlu'chu'DI' tujchoHpu' bIQ = the water will be(come) hot when
the boiler is completely energized.
bIDachtaHvIS, tujchoHpu' bIQ = the water will be(come) hot while you
are away (or the water got hot while you were away)

The {-choH} indicates the water was not hot before. The presence of
{-pu'} indicates that the "action" of "being hot" is completed (though
it may or may not continue to be hot), whereas its absence indicates
that the "action" is neither completed nor continuous.

bIDachtaHvIS, Duj vImutlhchoH = I [habitually, generally] switch to
building ships while you're away.
Perhaps we work at a factory that builds both starbases and starships.
We normally build starbases together, but without your expertise, when
you're away, I switch to making starships, as a general rule.

bIDachtaHvIS, Duj vImutlhchoHpu' = I switched to building ships while
you were away (and am done with that task).
We work at a factory together building starbases and starships. You
return from a trip and ask me what I did. I switched from whatever I
was doing before to building ships, but I'm done with that and can do
something else now (or not).

The {-choH} indicates that I wasn't building ships before (I was
building something else, or doing another task other than building
altogether). The presence of {-pu'} indicates my building ships is a
completed action, and its absence indicates that my ship-building is
neither completed nor continuous.

So to answer the question of whether {-choH} is compatible with type-7
suffixes, yes (as can already be seen in the sentence from TKD).

-- 
De'vID

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