tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Apr 12 13:06:52 2014
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I have always understood Klingons to be
inveterate storytellers (particularly Dahar masters like Kor), and
regardless of when they actually happened (or will happen), their
stories are set in the present tense, giving a sense of immediacy
and "being there."<br>
<br>
<b>molor HoH qeyleS.</b> <i>Kahless slew Molor.</i> (We all
know this happened over 1000 years ago.)<br>
<br>
~quljIb<br>
<br>
<br>
On 4/12/2014 10:53 AM, Robyn Stewart wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ah
that is useful to me. I don’t have a cassette player
anymore. I hope my CK cassettes still work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
So why do you think Marc Okrand uses the perfective so much
more than we do? There can easily be something special
about hunger and thirst. Maybe it’s specifically because the
time stamp is there in those sentences that the perfective
isn’t used. English has the same rule, in fact. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
I have eaten.<br>
I ate at five o’ clock.<br>
*I have eaten at five o’clock. <br>
<br>
The last one can be used, but only in a context like “I have
eaten at five o’ clock in the past, but usually I eat at
eight.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-
Qov<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> ghunchu'wI' [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email protected]">mailto:[email protected]</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> April 12, 2014 7:23<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 12, 2014, at 2:21 AM, "Robyn
Stewart" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">I’ve
been a huge advocate for a sentence</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">with
no aspect translatable as simple present, past</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">or
future, but</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">canon
isn’t supporting it. Marc has very consistently not used
it that way.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Conversational Klingon gives us clear
instruction. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="box-sizing: border-box"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr style="box-sizing: border-box">
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
border-box">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>wa'Hu' jIghung.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
border-box">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Yesterday I was hungry.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="box-sizing: border-box">
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
border-box">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>DaHjaj jI'oj.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
border-box">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Today I am thirsty.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="box-sizing: border-box">
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
border-box">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>wa'leS jIDoy'.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
border-box">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Tomorrow I'll be tired.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="box-sizing: border-box">
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
</td>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This doesn't merely support the "no
aspect can be any tense" position. It <i>prescribes</i> it.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our principal example of canonical
Klingon narrative, the paq'batlh, is extremely consistent in
this usage. When context calls for it, aspectless verbs in
the Klingon are paired with future and past tense phrases in
the English. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- ghunchu'wI'<o:p></o:p></p>
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