tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Apr 12 13:06:52 2014

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing



[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past

Gaerfindel ([email protected])



<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I have always understood Klingons to be
      inveterate storytellers (particularly Dahar masters like Kor), and
      regardless of when they actually happened (or will happen), their
      stories are set in the present tense, giving a sense of immediacy
      and "being there."<br>
      <br>
      <b>molor HoH qeyleS.</b>&nbsp; <i>Kahless slew Molor.</i>&nbsp; (We all
      know this happened over 1000 years ago.)<br>
      <br>
      ~quljIb<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 4/12/2014 10:53 AM, Robyn Stewart wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:[email protected]"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered
        medium)">
      <style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Verdana;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
	margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Ah
            that is useful to me. &nbsp;I don&#8217;t have a cassette player
            anymore. I hope my CK cassettes still work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
            So why do you think Marc Okrand uses the perfective so much
            more than we do?&nbsp; There can easily be something special
            about hunger and thirst. Maybe it&#8217;s specifically because the
            time stamp is there in those sentences that the perfective
            isn&#8217;t used. English has the same rule, in fact. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><br>
            I have eaten.<br>
            I ate at five o&#8217; clock.<br>
            *I have eaten at five o&#8217;clock. <br>
            <br>
            The last one can be used, but only in a context like &#8220;I have
            eaten at five o&#8217; clock in the past, but usually I eat at
            eight.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-
            Qov<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"
                lang="EN-US"> ghunchu'wI' [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email protected]";>mailto:[email protected]</a>] <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> April 12, 2014 7:23<br>
                <b>To:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 12, 2014, at 2:21 AM, "Robyn
            Stewart" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt;
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote
          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;-webkit-text-size-adjust:
          auto">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I&#8217;ve
              been a huge advocate for a sentence</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">with
              no aspect translatable as simple present, past</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">or
              future, but</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">canon
              isn&#8217;t supporting it. Marc has very consistently not used
              it that way.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Conversational Klingon gives us clear
            instruction.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="box-sizing: border-box"
            cellpadding="0" border="0">
            <tbody>
              <tr style="box-sizing: border-box">
                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
                  border-box">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b>wa'Hu'&nbsp;jIghung.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
                </td>
                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
                  border-box">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><i>Yesterday I was hungry.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr style="box-sizing: border-box">
                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
                  border-box">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b>DaHjaj jI'oj.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
                </td>
                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
                  border-box">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><i>Today I am thirsty.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr style="box-sizing: border-box">
                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
                  border-box">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b>wa'leS jIDoy'.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
                </td>
                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing:
                  border-box">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><i>Tomorrow I'll be tired.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
                </td>
              </tr>
              <tr style="box-sizing: border-box">
                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
                </td>
                <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><br>
                </td>
              </tr>
            </tbody>
          </table>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">This doesn't merely support the "no
            aspect can be any tense" position. It <i>prescribes</i> it.<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Our principal example of canonical
            Klingon narrative, the paq'batlh, is extremely consistent in
            this usage. When context calls for it, aspectless verbs in
            the Klingon&nbsp;are paired with&nbsp;future and past tense phrases in
            the English.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">-- ghunchu'wI'<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol";>http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
[email protected]
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol


Back to archive top level