tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Apr 12 07:54:02 2014

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ah that is useful to me.  I don’t have a cassette player anymore. I hope my CK cassettes still work.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>So why do you think Marc Okrand uses the perfective so much more than we do?  There can easily be something special about hunger and thirst. Maybe it’s specifically because the time stamp is there in those sentences that the perfective isn’t used. English has the same rule, in fact. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>I have eaten.<br>I ate at five o’ clock.<br>*I have eaten at five o’clock. <br><br>The last one can be used, but only in a context like “I have eaten at five o’ clock in the past, but usually I eat at eight.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>- Qov<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ghunchu'wI' [mailto:[email protected]] <br><b>Sent:</b> April 12, 2014 7:23<br><b>To:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Apr 12, 2014, at 2:21 AM, &quot;Robyn Stewart&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>I’ve been a huge advocate for a sentence</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>with no aspect translatable as simple present, past</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>or future, but</span> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>canon isn’t supporting it. Marc has very consistently not used it that way.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Conversational Klingon gives us clear instruction.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 style='box-sizing: border-box'><tr style='box-sizing: border-box'><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p class=MsoNormal><b>wa'Hu'&nbsp;jIghung.</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p class=MsoNormal><i>Yesterday I was hungry.</i><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='box-sizing: border-box'><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p class=MsoNormal><b>DaHjaj jI'oj.</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p class=MsoNormal><i>Today I am thirsty.</i><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='box-sizing: border-box'><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p class=MsoNormal><b>wa'leS jIDoy'.</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p class=MsoNormal><i>Tomorrow I'll be tired.</i><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style='box-sizing: border-box'><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This doesn't merely support the &quot;no aspect can be any tense&quot; position. It <i>prescribes</i> it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Our principal example of canonical Klingon narrative, the paq'batlh, is extremely consistent in this usage. When context calls for it, aspectless verbs in the Klingon&nbsp;are paired with&nbsp;future and past tense phrases in the English.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-- ghunchu'wI'<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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