tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Mar 24 20:16:37 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] wa'maH cha' jatlhwI'pu' po'qu' chaH 'Iv'e'?

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

The term "fluent" doesn't really seem to mean anything. I would consider myself fluent in a language if I could say anything I had to express without ever having to pause to look for the way to formulate the sentence and could completely understand well-formatted sentences spoken at a normal to rapid rate. I haven't ever considered myself fluent in Klingon, and I don't remember ever speaking with anyone that met that target.
I don't know where I got that definition, and it doesn't bother me that not everyone uses it. Lawrence used to not speak Klingon nearly as well as he does now, and he probably looked around the room at qep'a'mey and identified the group of people who could hold a conversation about pretty much anything and comfortably live for a day or so entirely in Klingon, with the major impediment being trying to communicate with people who hadn't reached that level. I can imagine there were about twelve of us in 1996 -- 1996? That was wejDIch! Most of us certainly got a lot better than we were then, and then some of us have declined again. His list probably would have included: Qanqor, Seqram, charghwI', ghunchu'wI', Holtej, me, nIchyon, yoDtargh, DrujIv (the last two I've never met) and ... I think taD, SuStel, pagh je weren't there in 1996 yet. Who else? There was a young, shy, guy whose name I have forgotten but who advised me of my ability, "not yIyon," and the advice stuck fast. And now there are lots of new speakers, many DoyIchlan[n]ganpu' vIqIHbe'bu'bogh, 'ISqu', latlhpu' law' vIlijpu'bogh je. qanoppu'chugh qatIch vIneHbe'. 1996 vIqelqu'.
You will meet many people who say they know someone who is fluent in Klingon, and most of the time they will turn out to speak hardly a word. If you meet someone you've never heard of who supposedly speaks Klingon and they can put together a single original sentence, you're doing well. I wish I had the resources to track down every independent Klingon speaker and haul them all to qep'a'.
Delton is pretty active on the net with costuming group, and he's at least first hand claiming his fluency. He might be on here, even. I found him on Facebook, so if he accepts my friend request I'll set up a video chat or something.
There must be over a hundred people who can produce competent Klingon text and read others' work, upping that to hundreds to thousands if they are allowed reference material, and depending on how much time you give them. Spoken Klingon though ... pretty rare.
I just want to speak Klingon as well as I possibly can and increase the cicles so there are as many as possible really good speakers, but also as many as possible people who know a tiny bit, even if their friends declare them fluent and confuse the issue. 

- Qov

At 00:56 '?????' 3/24/2012, you wrote:

rut ngoDHomqoq vIlegh: wa'maH cha' tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'pu' po'qu'
lutu'lu'. 'e' Harlaw' {the Internet}:
http://www.google.com/#q=twelve+fluent+Klingon+speakers

chaH 'Iv? jatlhwI' po'qu' ghaH vay''e' rut vabDot net maq![1]
chovnatlhvam yIqIm:
http://alientongues.com/?p=128
jatlh {Delton Wilson}: {I am one of those "twelve" Klingon speakers
that you wrote about...}

not nuvvam pong vIQoypu'. 'ach DuHqu' DuHvam: noybogh qoj po'qu'bogh
tlhIngan jatlhwI'pu''e' Hoch vISovbe'.  pIj pong pIm lo' je tlhIngan
jatlhwI'pu'.  chaq naDev ghaHtaH {Delton Wilson}vam'e' 'ach pongDaj
vIghovbe' neH jIH'e'.

'ach qo'Daq tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'pu' po'qu' 'ar tu'lu'?  tlhIngan Hol
yejHaDvaD toy'pu' taghwI' pabpo'[2] 'ar?  pab pIn patlh'e' bajlu'bogh
'ar ghov yejHaD?  po'wI' 'ar ghov?  ghojwI' 'ar ghov?  Sov'a' vay'?
http://higbee.cots.net/Holtej//klingon/KLCP/index.htm

noylaw'bogh tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'vaD tetlh tu'lu', 'ach Dachbej nuv
law' 'ej naQbe' De':
/wiki/index.php?Klingonists%20of%20Note
(tlhIngan Hol DajatlhlaHchugh tetlhvamvaD yIchel'eghqu'!)

tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'pu' po'qu' vIqIH vIneHbej.  wa' qepHomvaD neH
jIjeSta' 'ach not qep'a'Daq jISaH.[3]

toH, tlhIngan Hol jatlhwI'pu' po'qu' mI' DanoHDI' nuq 'oH mI''e'?

[1] - I wanted to say "[Sometimes it's even claimed that] someone is
one of the twelve [fluent speakers]".  {wa'maH cha''e' wa' ghaH
vay''e'}?  Also, this is one time I wish I was speaking Morskan: so I
can emphasise the {vay''e'}.
[2] - Has {pabpo'} never appeared in canon?  Strange, I'm sure
everyone understands it.  I did find it in something written by {HoD
Qanqor}.
[3] - I wanted to say "I haven't been yet" but {wej}... oh, {wej}, why
do you mean both "not yet" and "three"?
[4] - My first attempt at "How many [fluent speakers] do you think
there are?" was {jatlhwI'pu' po'qu' 'ar DanoH?}  But this is obviously
wrong, as it means "how many fluent speakers do you judge/estimate?"
(i.e., you're judging/estimating the speakers, not how many of them
there are).  I could've just gone with {'ar tu'lu'} "how many are
there?", but I wanted to express "in your opinion/estimation", though
perhaps that's something that Klingons would not be culturally
inclined to add (if you ask someone a question without a clear answer,
_of course_ the answer is their opinion/estimation).  Would {'ar
tu'lu'law'?} have worked?  TKD 4.2.6 says {-law'} expresses
uncertainty on the _speaker's_ part, so it's bit weird to attach it to
a question.

--
De'vID

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