tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Mar 21 13:33:48 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] New Canon - King John Shakespeare

Terrence Donnelly ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">I seem to recall the examples {Hoch SuvwI'} "every soldier" vs. {SuvwI' Hoch} "the entire soldier".&nbsp; If {bID} works by analogy, I'd expect {bID paH} to mean "half of the skirts."<br><br>I go back to the old conception of the N1-N2 construction meaning "of the universal set of N2, the N1 portion of it/them".&nbsp; So, {Hoch SuvwI'}, "of the universal set of soldiers, all of them", {bID paH} "of the universal set of skirts, half of them".<br><br>-- ter'eS<br><br>--- On <b>Wed, 3/21/12, lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <i>&lt;[email protected]&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] New Canon - King John Shakespeare<br>To: "tlhIngan-Hol" &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>Date: Wednesday, March 21,
 2012, 3:16 PM<br><br><div id="yiv566201887"><div>There have been a lot of confident pronouncements about how to interpret when you should use {bID} before or after a noun without much in the way of explanation citing any kind of canon or rule from Okrand.<div><br></div><div>We know that of whole numbers {cha' paH} would be "two gowns", while {paH cha'} would be "gown #2" (another way of saying "the second gown"). So, might {bID paH} refer to half of a gown while {paH bID} might refer to the gown's half? (As in gown #0.5)</div><div><br></div><div>That second one would be far-fetched, perhaps, but it would be more meaningful with plurals:</div><div><br></div><div>bID paHmey - Half of the gowns<br><div><br></div><div>paHmey bID - The half-gowns</div><div><br></div><div>I don't feel very solid here, and I don't quite understand why others seem to be more confident. I'm suspecting that Okrand is just sloppy in how he's used {bID} and he hasn't explained what
 it's supposed to mean, perhaps because he hasn't decided what it is supposed to mean.</div><div><br><div>
<span class="yiv566201887Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;orphans:2;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium;"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br class="yiv566201887Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Robyn Stewart wrote:</div><br class="yiv566201887Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>At 11:23 '?????' 3/21/2012, De'vID jonpIn wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Voragh:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">&gt; We have two new examples from "TalkNow! Klingon":<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">&gt;<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">&gt; &nbsp;yopwaH bID &nbsp;&nbsp;shorts (pants)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">&gt; &nbsp;paH bID &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;skirt<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Mini-skirt: {paHHom bID} or {paH bIDHom} (or neither)?<br></blockquote><br> paH bID tIqHa'. qIvDu' 'angbogh paH bID. Sa'Hut qatchu'be'bogh paH bID. nISbe'bogh paH bID vItuQlaHtaH Do qam DujwIj vIlIghtaHvIS.<br><br>- Qov <br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing
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