tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 08 23:33:49 2012
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Semantic roles with -moH... again
ghItlhpu' quljIb, jatlh:
> How about this?
>
> {HIp vItuQ} - I wear the uniform.
> {HIp vItuQ jIH} - *I* wear the uniform. (Not someone else.)
vIlajbej.
> {HIp vItuQmoH} - I dress (someone) in a uniform.
> {HIp vItuQeghmoH} - I dress myself in a uniform.
{vItuQ'eghmoH} DaghItlhHa'ba'pu'.
> {HIqraj qatuQmoH} - You dress me in your uniform. (Prefix trick.)
Actually it says "you dress me in your alcohol." HIp = uniform; HIq
= alcohol. (I note it since it's clearly not just a typo; you do the
same thing in the next three sentences too.) And as Qov points out,
the second-person markers are off.
> {HIqwIj vItuQHa'moH} - I undress (from) my uniform.
I would understand that to mean "I cause my uniform to be taken off",
though as SuStel says, whether it's that I take it off myself or I
cause someone else who's wearing my uniform to take it off is not
overtly expressed in the Klingon.
I think this is the simplest answer to {tuQmoH}. I see it as a bog-
standard causative verb just like any other, that means "cause to
wear". In {qoghwIj vItuQmoHHa'pu'}, it's just lacking a -vaD noun to
show the experiencer of {tuQ} - i.e. who's wearing the belt. It could
be anyone, but perhaps in Klingon it would make most sense to assume
that it's the belt's owner? I honestly don't think it's necessary to
assume that {tuQmoH} is a distinct lexical unit, the weirdness of the
idiom notwithstanding. (We have plenty of idioms with weird grammar.
ghIj qet jaghmeyjaj springs to mind.)
> {puqloDwI'vaD DuSaQ HIqDaj vItuQHa'moH} - I undress my son from his
> school uniform.
vIlaj.
> {HIqvam mutuQmoH 'IpwI'} - My oath causes me to wear this uniform.
> <== Note the difference, here!
This is just the prefix trick - I don't see it as all that different.
{HIpvam mutuQmoH 'IpwIj} is functionally the same as {jIHvaD HIpvam
tuQmoH 'IpwIj}, with the same demotion of {jIH} to indirect object
that you find in {wo'rIvvaD quHDaj qawmoH Ha'QujDaj}.
QeS 'utlh
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
[email protected]
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol