tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jun 26 05:26:12 2009
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Re: Klingon IPA chart
On Jun 26, 2009, at 6:07 AM, Michael Everson wrote:
>> And it's not a "slang" variant, it's a lazy and incorrect one. :)
>
> Laziness and incorrectness betoken "slang". I could say "informal".
Please don't. That too would imply it was acceptable in the right
context. However, KGT is quite clear on the {qUlegh} thing in
particular: it is "an error worthy of correction." That paragraph
is simultaneously descriptive and prescriptive. Some people do it,
and it's wrong. If you must label this variation as something other
than "incorrect", I suggest you call it "sloppy", a word Okrand used
on the previous page.
>> If you wish to represent childish speech, you should include the
>> voiced variant of {j},
>
> You mean "the fricative {zh} variant of {j}".
I actually had meant to type "the voiced 'sh' variant". I wanted to
use the appropriate IPA symbol, but I couldn't manage to copy it from
the {j} cell of your chart. It seems I ended up forgetting the 'sh',
but the meaning appears to have gotten through.
> you missed out
> "the alveolar {n} variant of syllable-final {Å}" and "the affricate
> {ch} variant of syllable-final {tlh}".
[n] and [tÊ] are already accounted for. Note that I also "missed
out" things like [b] and [l], because your chart already includes
them, thus there was no need to suggest that they be added.
> I think on reflection that there's only one way to know whether the
> distrubution if {ghl} is syllable-initial or initial/medial would be
> to know whether {chatlhoy} 'soupkin' (KGT p. 201) would be realized in
> Morskan as {chatsoy} or {chaghloy}. Okrand describes the distribution
> of {ghl} and {ts} in terms of morpheme boundaries,...
On the contrary, he describes them in terms of *syllable* boundaries.
>> KGT page 22 says that the variation depends on whether the sound is
>> at the beginning or end of a syllable, not of a word.
>
> See above.
No, see KGT page 22. Really. He even uses the word "phonological".
>> You've ignored the untrilled "r" in the consonant cluster {rgh} at
>> the end of some syllables. I mention it because your chart notes
>> seem to be striving for completeness of description.
>
> Can you point me to Okrand's description of this? I couldn't find it.
It's not described, but it is attested. For example, _Power Klingon_
includes the phrase {Hoch vor Dargh wIb} "Sour tea cures
everything." There's enough background noise that I can't really
tell whether the {r} in {vor} is realized as [r] or [É], but it's
definitely [É] in {Dargh}. (I think I'm using the symbols properly,
but don't assume I have any great certainty about them.)
> By the way, Okrand transcribes the voiceless [w] as {Hw} which would
> be [xw]; I have transcribed it as [Ê] because that is what I have
> heard in actual use.
Where is this {Hw} mentioned?
-- ghunchu'wI'