tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jun 26 03:43:45 2009

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Re: Klingon IPA chart

Mark J. Reed ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

I don't think "slang" is appropriate here.  It  is usually used to
refer to usage/vocabulary, not pronunciation.

On 6/26/09, Michael Everson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 26 Jun 2009, at 01:06, ghunchu'wI' wrote:
>
>> On Jun 25, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/tlh/klingon-ipa.pdf
>>
>> "...[É] is a slang variant of [u]."  I think you might be referring
>> to the {qUlegh} example from KGT page 139.  The vowel being relaxed
>> is {a}, not {u}.
>
> Ah yes, that was a hypercorrection since Okrand writes it U. Thanks.
>
>> And it's not a "slang" variant, it's a lazy and  incorrect one. :)
>
> Laziness and incorrectness betoken "slang". I could say "informal".
>
>> If you wish to represent childish speech, you should include the
>> voiced variant of {j},
>
> You mean "the fricative {zh} variant of {j}".
>
>> the more "k"-ish version of {q},
>
> "the velar {k} variant of {q}"
>
>> and the "nyet"-like pronunciation of syllable-initial {ng}, all
>> described on  KGT page 32.
>
> "the palatal {É} variant of syllable-initial {Å}"; you missed out
> "the alveolar {n} variant of syllable-final {Å}" and "the affricate
> {ch} variant of syllable-final {tlh}".
>
> I'm not sure that child phonemes belong in the chart, though they do
> belong in the description.
>
>> "In Morskan dialect, [Él] is an initial and medial, and [ts] a final,
>> variant of [tÉ]." What do you mean by "medial"?
>
> In the middle of a word between two vowels. I was thinking that
> {tlhutlh} 'drink', Morskan {ghluts} would be {jItlhutlh}, {jIghluts}.
> I suppose that I considered that {jItlhutlh'a'} would be Morskan
> {jIghluts'a'} (and not *{jIghlughl'a'} because -'a' begins with a
> consonant.
>
> I think on reflection that there's only one way to know whether the
> distrubution if {ghl} is syllable-initial or initial/medial would be
> to know whether {chatlhoy} 'soupkin' (KGT p. 201) would be realized in
> Morskan as {chatsoy} or {chaghloy}. Okrand describes the distribution
> of {ghl} and {ts} in terms of morpheme boundaries, but the sound
> change would be effectuated in terms of the phonological environment.
> Since the prefixes all end in vowels, it is possible to describe this
> as (V)tlhV -> (V)ghlV in Morskan; {chaghloy} would fit into this
> pattern.
>
> Could you please ask Marc Okrand to clarify this point? It is beyond
> obscure, I know...
>
>> KGT page 22 says that the variation depends on whether the sound is
>> at the beginning or end of a syllable, not of a word.  The only
>> thing in the middle of a Klingon syllable is a vowel.
>
> See above.
>
>> You've ignored the untrilled "r" in the consonant cluster {rgh} at
>> the end of some syllables.  I mention it because your chart notes
>> seem to be striving for completeness of description.
>
> Can you point me to Okrand's description of this? I couldn't find it.
>
>> I thought "h" was a fricative, not an affricate.
>
> As indeed are x and É. Pasting error.
>
>> I'm only going to say this once:  Klingon does not have diphthongs
>> as distinct phonemes.
>
> Well, it does have limitations on which pairs are found (no *ow, no
> *uw). Indeed he gives a whole section of these in the section on
> vowels, which is just where one would expect to find diphthongs
> described. So I am not sure why you are so adamant that Klingon does
> not have diphthongs.
>
> It appears that the analysis of the diphthongs is VC('), and that
> apart from {'} other *VyC and *VwC combinations do not occur.
>
> By the way, Okrand transcribes the voiceless [w] as {Hw} which would
> be [xw]; I have transcribed it as [Ê] because that is what I have
> heard in actual use.
>
> I have uploaded a revised chart at
> http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/tlh/klingon-ipa.pdf
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Mark J. Reed <[email protected]>

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