tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jul 17 06:08:32 2008

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Re: Atlantean language

Doq ([email protected]) 

The issue here is simple. If some group wants to develop a language  
that was invented by an individual, only that individual has the  
authority to expand the vocabulary or grammar. If you want to come up  
with a dialect that is developed by someone other than the creator of  
the language, fine. Do what you like, but don't refer to it by the  
name of the original language. You make a false claim when you do so.

If someone wants to make up a language called Uremehor that is based  
on Uremehir, go for it. Just don't call it Uremehir. If Uremehor has  
merit, likely some group will recognize that merit and Uremehor will  
survive after Uremehir fades into obscurity. This sort of thing  
doesn't tend to happen, since those who would alter a language rarely  
possess the skills or dedication already shown by those who create  
them, but it could happen. You could be the first. Go for it!

If someone wants to expand upon tlhIngan Hol, no problem. Just call it  
tlhangan Hol and start your own group. Don't try to bend this group to  
sidestep the continuing authority of the creator of the language. It  
won't work. It's been tried lots of times.

The simple truth is, Okrand has the expertise, the time and the  
dedication to come up with these languages, and you don't. His work is  
recognized by enough people to form groups based upon his languages  
and his authority to create and modify them. Your work is not.

You can't just step in and take over because, by your reckoning,  
Okrand isn't doing it the way you think he should, so by self- 
declaration, you can take over.

I tried to make up a language once. I came up with some really cool  
ideas as to the cultural roots behind the unusual characteristics of  
both the written and spoken versions of the language. It was a kind of  
secret society -- a culture of alien spies who needed a language that  
supported their secret nature. The written language could be hidden in  
the decorations of a picture frame or the edges of a certificate. The  
spoken language never used vocalization to differentiate phonemes, so  
you could be equally understood while whispering, or yelling across a  
canyon. In other words, you say "s" when whispering and "z" when  
yelling, and it only counts as one phoneme. You speak with either no  
vocalization or with constant vocalization, depending on the context  
of the volume level. You don't have vocalizations cutting in and out  
as you do with human languages.

For all its coolness and interest, I never quite managed to pin down  
the actual shapes of the whole alphabet or the full set of phonemes,  
and I never got anywhere with the vocabulary. That's why there isn't a  
society of people who speak the language I didn't quite finish making  
up.

This gives me even more respect for what Okrand has done several times  
now. I'm not convinced that the language will die without his  
dedicated expansion of it at a pace that satisfies some newbie who  
wants to take over. That prediction has been made for over a decade.  
It hasn't happened yet.

Dun tlhIngan Hol. Holvammo' Okrand wIvuvnIS. Holvam tIvtaH ghomvam.  
Daj yInwIj; Holvam vISovmo' 'e'  Dub Okrand. ngoDvammo' Okrand vItlho'.

Doq

On Jul 16, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Fiat Knox wrote:

>>> The development is rather easier than Klingon as I just
>>> make compounds out of canonical words. Hence, there's
>>> less of a need for reference materials or authority.
>>> It's more artificial but easy. I've also started on a
>>> development that constructs new words based on Okrand's
>>> method.  I don't think it'll get as well developed as
>>> the canonical one, though.  People just seem to want
>>> something Atlantean-like they can write in.
>
>> That is deeply disturbing. It is no longer the language
>> MO created.
>
> vaj nuq?
>
> White Wolf's Storytelling game, Werewolf: the Forsaken came
> up with a language called "First Tongue," or Uremehir in
> that language. The sounds of that language are derived
> from, of all things, the phonemes of Sumerian.
>
> But for the lack of support from White Wolf, there'd likely
> be an Uremehir mailing list today, and a whole lot of
> furries.
>
> As it is, a language - like an Empire - must either be
> expanding and growing, or dead.
>
> Outside of KGT, how many new canon words or grammatical
> rules have been revealed since December 2005 again?
>
> Peace,
>
>
> Alex.
>
> "Oh, I love it when they /ask/ me to corrupt them ..." - Me, talking  
> to Nai, Mar 01 2008
>
> "You people and your quaint little categories." - Captain Jack  
> Harkness, Torchwood
>
> "We're grown ups now, and it's our turn to decide what that means."  
> - Randall Munroe, http://xkcd.com
>
> Conquer the Universe with me! See how at http://fiat-knox.livejournal.com
>
> We are now leaving the Kingdom of Star Trek and entering normal space.
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________
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> Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses  
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>

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