tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 21 09:37:49 2007

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Re: nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'?

Steven Boozer ([email protected])



ghunchu'wI':
>>Following this apparent pattern, {nuqDaq 'oH} is right for asking the
>>location of a restroom in a building or the location of a good
>>restaurant.  {nuqDaq 'oHtaH} would be perfectly appropriate when
>>referring to an already-known but mobile restroom or restaurant.

Voragh:
> > But again, as we've both remarked, the spoiler is:
> >
> >   pa' 'oHtaH vaS'a''e'.  tlhIngan qum waw' 'oH.
> >   This is where the Klingon Great Hall is located,
> >    the center of the Klingon government. S27

mI'qey:
>I suspect this isn't the conundrum it seems.  It may be that the 
>identification of the Great Hall as the
>center of government is seen not as contingent or temporary but as true by 
>definition:  the {vaS'a'} is
>the center of government regardless of its location. Thus the absence of 
>{-taH} in the second sentence is necessary.

No argument here.  {[NOUN2] [PRONOUN] [NOUN1]'e'} is used for basic 
statement of facts or identity.  E.g. inter alia:

   yoq yIn yuQ 'oH Qo'noS'e'.  yInSIp voQSIp je ngaS muDDaj.
   Qo'noS is a class-M planet with an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere. S27

mI'qey:
>The first sentence has {-taH} either because the location is seen as a 
>(possibly) temporary attribute (the Great Hall used to be across town, 
>and/or they're breaking ground next week for a replacement Great Hall up 
>the street), or because  [... remainder of reply missing!]

Voragh:
> > The way I read this is that pronoun-as-verb statements of location require
> > {-taH} on the pronoun, but questions of location (i.e. those with {nuqDaq}
> > "where?}) do not.  Whether the location is temporary or permanent seems to
> > be irrelevant.

I stand by this.

On the other hand {nuqDaq [PRONOUN] [NOUN1]'e'} is used for asking 
locations.  Perhaps {-taH} is omitted because {nuqDaq} is not an actual 
location (i.e. a noun), but rather a "question word".  IOW the location is 
unknown.  So perhaps we can restate this "rule"/"undocumented feature" 
as:  {[NOUN2]Daq [PRONOUN]taH [NOUN1]'e'} is used for giving known/actual 
locations, temporary or permanent, with the following caveat:

   It is worth noting at this point that the concepts expressed
   by the English adverbs "here", "there", and "everywhere" are
   expressed by nouns in Klingon: {naDev} "hereabouts", {pa'}
   "thereabouts", {Dat} "everywhere" [...] Unlike other nouns,
   these three words are never followed by the locative suffix
   [{-Daq}].   [TKD p. 27f.]




--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons






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