tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 21 09:37:49 2007
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Re: nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'?
ghunchu'wI':
>>Following this apparent pattern, {nuqDaq 'oH} is right for asking the
>>location of a restroom in a building or the location of a good
>>restaurant. {nuqDaq 'oHtaH} would be perfectly appropriate when
>>referring to an already-known but mobile restroom or restaurant.
Voragh:
> > But again, as we've both remarked, the spoiler is:
> >
> > pa' 'oHtaH vaS'a''e'. tlhIngan qum waw' 'oH.
> > This is where the Klingon Great Hall is located,
> > the center of the Klingon government. S27
mI'qey:
>I suspect this isn't the conundrum it seems. It may be that the
>identification of the Great Hall as the
>center of government is seen not as contingent or temporary but as true by
>definition: the {vaS'a'} is
>the center of government regardless of its location. Thus the absence of
>{-taH} in the second sentence is necessary.
No argument here. {[NOUN2] [PRONOUN] [NOUN1]'e'} is used for basic
statement of facts or identity. E.g. inter alia:
yoq yIn yuQ 'oH Qo'noS'e'. yInSIp voQSIp je ngaS muDDaj.
Qo'noS is a class-M planet with an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere. S27
mI'qey:
>The first sentence has {-taH} either because the location is seen as a
>(possibly) temporary attribute (the Great Hall used to be across town,
>and/or they're breaking ground next week for a replacement Great Hall up
>the street), or because [... remainder of reply missing!]
Voragh:
> > The way I read this is that pronoun-as-verb statements of location require
> > {-taH} on the pronoun, but questions of location (i.e. those with {nuqDaq}
> > "where?}) do not. Whether the location is temporary or permanent seems to
> > be irrelevant.
I stand by this.
On the other hand {nuqDaq [PRONOUN] [NOUN1]'e'} is used for asking
locations. Perhaps {-taH} is omitted because {nuqDaq} is not an actual
location (i.e. a noun), but rather a "question word". IOW the location is
unknown. So perhaps we can restate this "rule"/"undocumented feature"
as: {[NOUN2]Daq [PRONOUN]taH [NOUN1]'e'} is used for giving known/actual
locations, temporary or permanent, with the following caveat:
It is worth noting at this point that the concepts expressed
by the English adverbs "here", "there", and "everywhere" are
expressed by nouns in Klingon: {naDev} "hereabouts", {pa'}
"thereabouts", {Dat} "everywhere" [...] Unlike other nouns,
these three words are never followed by the locative suffix
[{-Daq}]. [TKD p. 27f.]
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons