tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 02 09:51:02 2007
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Re: Purpose Clauses (was Re: "conjunction"?)
Paul:
> >There's ONE exception I found, though -- in the back of TKD:
> > Dochvetlh DIlmeH Huch 'ar DaneH
> > How much do you want for that?
> >Yuck. I'd almost chalk this up as a mistake, given the number of other
> >places where non-0 prefixes are used [...]
QeS:
>See, this is another piece of evidence supporting my theory. {[[Dochvetlh
>DIlmeH Huch] 'ar] DaneH} "[how much [money to pay for that thing]] do you
>want?". My theory explains this perfectly, and doesn't require us to write
>it off as a mistake.
Paul:
> >and this from TKD:
> > Dochvetlh DIlmeH Huch 'ar DaneH
> >Which is only notable because the subject of /DIlmeH/ should either be "I"
> >(/vIDIlmeH/ "for me to pay for" -- I believe what the statement is actually
> >implying), or "indefinite subject" (/DIllu'meH/ "for one to pay for")...
QeS:
>How do you propose to interpret it, then? My theory - that there is no
>prefix - deals with this example quite satisfactorily, and resolves the
>problems that would be created by applying the rule of {rom}.
Paul:
>I'm of two minds of how to approach things. On the one side, I take
>Okrand as fallible, as we all are, and that in some of the 'apparently
>wrong' examples, they are what they are -- 'wrong'. /Dochvetlh DIlmeH
>Huch 'ar DaneH/ really should use /vIDIlmeH/ or /DIllu'meH/.
ghunchu'wI':
>I don't see anything wrong with this one as it stands. The "that
>thing's to-pay-for money" interpretation works perfectly for me.
I've often wondered whether {DIlmeH Huch} is actually a purpose noun
meaning "price" or "cost" and not part of a purpose clause at all. The
whole sentence then becomes an expanded version of
Huch 'ar DaneH?
How much money do you want? TKD
Dochvetlh <DIlmeH Huch> 'ar DaneH
How much (money) do you want for that (thing)?
Thus {Dochvetlh DIlmeH Huch} is "that thing's price" and so {DIl} does not
need to be conjugated {vIDIlmeH}. (It can be conjugated if the speaker
wants - cf. {qaSuchmeH 'eb} - but it does not need to be.) The awkward bit
- at least to my ears - is the placement of {Dochvetlh}. {Dochvetlh
<DIlmeH Huch> 'ar} "how much of this thing's price, how much price (for)
this thing" may be a perfectly kosher noun1 + noun2 + {'ar} phrase in
Klingon.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons