tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 17 08:47:58 2007
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Re: jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'
QeS 'utlh wrote:
> jItlhobpu', jIjatlh:
>> Although if you accept that a type 5 noun suffix attaches to whole
>> phrases in that way, what do you believe is wrong with {qach
>> vIleghboghDaq}?
>
> mujang SuStel, ja':
>> The former is a name; the latter is not.
>
> I think that interpretation dodges the issue rather than explaining
> it. {qep'a' wejDIch} might be a specific {qep'a'} and might be a
> name, but it's also a perfectly grammatical Klingon phrase ("the
> third conference"), and although we have no evidence either way, I
> tend towards the interpretation that doesn't require setting up a
> special grammatical rule for proper names.
I KNOW it's a name. It was in an e-mail addressed to me, in which we
were discussing qep'a' wejDIch by name.
> I used to think that the ordinals were true adjectives (which Klingon
> mostly lacks). Now, the universality of the passage from TKD that
> you cite is somewhat questionable (since numbers of repetition are
> adverbs, and not nouns), but the existence of a noun {cha'DIch}
> "second (in a duel)" backs it up, so it seems the ordinals probably
> *are* nouns, and as such might be more literally translated as "first
> one", "second one", "third one", and so forth (and fifth for that
> matter!).
Ordinals are numbers (chuvmey) with a special suffix on them. In a
sentence, we are told, numbers act as nouns, so even a number with the
ordinal suffix is a noun. But it's USED as an adjective, not an adverb;
the ordinal always modifies a noun. Unless, of course, it's used as a
noun instead, like we have with {cha'DIch}.
But that's not to say that ordinals follow the rules of Klingon
adjectives. Klingon doesn't HAVE adjectives; it has verbs and {chuvmey}
acting like nouns that act like adjectives. Just because the locative
noun suffix migrates to the end of a verb acting as an adjective doesn't
PROVE that it'll do the same thing to an ordinal (but that's where my
money would go).
Relative clauses also act like adjectives in a broad sense. They
describe the head noun. This is where I think the term "adjective"
breaks down: I seriously doubt that type 5 noun suffixes would migrate
to the end of a relative clause just because it's adjectival in nature.
SuStel
Stardate 7960.8
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