tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Dec 16 16:52:18 2007

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Re: jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

Alan Anderson wrote:
> I didn't mean to imply that relative clauses can automatically form  
> locatives.  I'm just pointing out that TKD says a relative clause can  
> be translated using the relative pronoun "where".  In concert with  
> TKD's previously given explanation of how relative clauses are  
> translated into English, I think this "illustrative example" is  
> enough support to consider {maSoppu'bogh Qe'} to be a grammatically  
> proper Klingon phrase.

    Relative clauses are translated into English as phrases beginning
    with /who/, /which/, /where/, and, most commonly, /that/. Like
    adjectives, they describe nouns: /the dog which is running/, /the cat
    that is sleeping/, /the child who is playing/, /the restaurant where
    we ate/. The noun modified by a relative clause is the head noun.

    In Klingon...	--TKD 6.2.3

The illustrations of relative clauses are describing ENGLISH relative 
clauses. This is demonstrated in that the examples use /dog/ and /cat/, 
which have no translations in the dictionary. In these sentences, Okrand 
is explaining what a relative clause is in any language, not just 
Klingon. It's the next paragraph that starts talking about Klingon, and 
from then on there's no mention of /where/.

Are you now suggesting that {maSoppu'bogh Qe'} is perhaps legitimate? 
(You said before you didn't think a translation was possible.) Is {Qe'} 
the head noun? Why is it {maSoppu'bogh Qe'} and not {Qe' maSoppu'bogh}? 
Can you say "I'm going to the restaurant where the officer saw the 
captain?" (HoD leghbogh yaS Qe'Daq vIjaH?) How do you explain the fact 
that Okrand said he couldn't find a way to set up a relative clause 
unless the head noun were subject or object of the relative verb?

Do you really think you've solved "ship in which I fled"? :) Are you 
saying it's {jIHaw'bogh Duj}? jIHaw'bogh DujDaq baH jagh?

It's not an unpleasant idea. I just don't think it's true.

SuStel
Stardate 7959.0

-- 
Practice the Klingon language on the tlhIngan Hol MUSH.
http://trimboli.name/klingon/mush.html

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