tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Nov 19 05:49:53 2006

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Re: I should kill you where you stand

QeS 'utlh ([email protected]) 

ghItlhpu' mIq'ey, ja':
>"I should kill you where you stand" is a prototypically Klingon sentiment 
>that
>seems difficult to actually say in Klingon as we know it.  There doesn't 
>appear
>to be a mechanism for relative clauses that are not the subject or object 
>of the
>main verb,

Compare {meQtaHbogh qachDaq Suv qoH neH} "only a fool fights in a burning 
house" (TKW p.111), in which {qach}, the subject and head of the relative 
clause, actually behaves as a locative header in the main clause.

The problem with translating "I should kill you where you stand" is that 
anything you do with {Daq} "site" or {pa'} "there" would require not only 
that the noun stand as a locative header in the main clause, but that it 
serve as the locative in the *relative* clause also. This latter 
construction is what Klingon can't handle.

>and there also doesn't seem to be a way to express moral obligation. One 
>could imagine there being a type-2 verbal suffix for this, but none is
>attested.

{-nIS} "necessary"? Necessity can stem from many things, and for a Klingon, 
moral obligation would certainly be viewed as a necessity. It's also 
important to remember that Klingon has no explicit subjunctive mood. My 
interpretation is that an unmarked verb may represent either indicative or 
subjunctive meaning, on the basis of canon such as the following from ST5:

Klaa: qIrq vIjeylaHchugh...
       (If I could defeat Kirk...)
Vixis: qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS.
       (You would be the greatest warrior in the galaxy.)

In this exchange, the situation of being the greatest warrior in the galaxy 
is as yet unrealised, and dependent upon the result of an event which has 
not yet happened and to which there seems to be some doubt attached - i.e. 
the defeat of Kirk. The semantics of the subjunctive mood are clearly here, 
but there is no morphological subjunctive marking; plain indicatives are 
used, which indicate to me that ordinary Klingon verbs may be semantically 
either subjunctive or indicative according to context.

>It seems to me that Klingons would express obligation in terms of honor, so 
>I
>came up with the following:
>QamtaHghach DaqlIjDaq qaHoH quvvaD vIneH

"For honour I want to kill you in your site of standing". It sounds a little 
convoluted, don't you think?

First off, {neH} probably isn't the verb you want in the main clause, as 
you're not talking about mere desire, but obligation or necessity. You might 
want to give some thought to possible uses of {'ut} "be necessary", or as I 
and others have pointed out, the suffix {-nIS}. Also, {QamtaHghach} doesn't 
sound right here. I would have said {QammeH DaqlIj} "your standing site, 
place where you stand".

Finally, if you're talking about the general idea of honour as a Klingon 
moral code, as opposed to merely one's own personal honour, maybe {batlh} 
would be preferable to {quv}. I see it as the difference between "Honour 
demands that I kill you" (this would be {batlh}; maybe you committed a crime 
like killing a non-combatant during a war) and "MY honour demands that I 
kill you" ( this would be {quv}; maybe you spread a rumour casting doubt 
upon the fidelity of my parents).

>I considered {qaHoH 'e' poQ quv}, but that seems too strong; if honor 
>demands
>something, an honorable Klingon not only should do it, he/she _must_ do it.
>Therefore I preferred the slightly less compelling {quvvaD vIneH}, on the
>assumption that {quvvaD} expresses an idea similar to "for honor's sake".

That assumption is 100% correct. {-vaD} means "for, for the benefit of", and 
the translation "for the sake of" is a perfectly acceptable alternative 
gloss IMHO.

>hIHoH quvvaD vIneH pa' biQamtaHvIS

Watch your capitalising: {HIHoH}, {bIQamtaHvIS}. Also, using an imperative 
sentence as the object in a {S 'e' V} construction is probably not possible; 
it doesn't seem to make any sense.

I'd go with lay'tel SIvten on this one; I would drop any reference to "where 
you stand" and go with the much pithier and more Klingon {DaH qaHoHnIS} "I 
should kill you now!", maybe with a {jay'} and an epithet or two added to 
the end for good measure. {{:)

QeS 'utlh
tlhIngan Hol yejHaD pabpo' / Grammarian of the Klingon Language Institute


not nItoj Hemey ngo' juppu' ngo' je
(Old roads and old friends will never deceive you)
     - Ubykh Hol vIttlhegh

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