tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 21 19:33:36 2006

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Re: I have a few questions that confuse me...

Shane MiQogh ([email protected]) 

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OH COMMON! I had it set to go to the guy's email, not the [email protected]... ugh... lol

Shane MiQogh <[email protected]> wrote:  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Ah thanks, sooooooo, what's KLBC stand for..? And mu' HaqwI' basically is a dictionary, it uses TKW and the dictionary as sources for it's words. Basically, it has all the words the dictionary does. Note, this is a message i sent directly to you, so it's not public. That's what i mean though.. nouns... Exactly WHY do we do that with nouns and when don't we...? Does it effect pronouns... It's one concept uncovered... the klingon postal course person isn't correcting my answers so i have to ask any questions i have, here. lol

Terrence Donnelly wrote: Hi, Shane. My name is ter'eS. I don't recognize your
name, so I'm assuming you are new to the mailing list.

I am the Beginner's Grammarian, which means that it's
my job to answer your grammar questions and generally
get you oriented. Whenever you have a specific
question
you'd like answered, put KLBC at the beginning of the
subject line. That give me first right to respond
(mainly
so you won't be confused by the often conflicting
opinions
of the listmembers). Once I've responded, the
question is
open to everyone. 

--- Shane MiQogh wrote:
> The suffix 'e' is used at the end of a noun
> sometimes as an object, but not all the time... When
> do you use it, and when do you not? I figured out
> you don't as a pronoun... But as far as i know, both
> sentances are correct...
>

{-'e'} is used in several specific cases. The most
common are
to mark the "subject" in an equational sentence, eg.
{tlhoy'Daq 'oHtaH yopwaH'e'} or to mark the head noun
in
a relative phrase, eg. {yaS'e' muSbogh HoD vIlegh} "I
saw
the officer whom the captain hates".

BTW, what resources do you have? You've mentioned
some
on-line tools. These are fine, but if you don't
already
have it, you really need a copy of The Klingon
Dictionary.
There are lots of other good resources, too, but that
one
is absolutely essential.


> A: QumwI' vIneH.
> 
> B: QumwI''e' vIneH.
> 
> Odd... They both make sence, right? I can't find
> the phrase, but there is a phrase of which a pypius
> (sp?) claw was the tobic, and in "The Klingon Way"
> he didn't append 'e' to the end.
> 

{-'e'} isn't a marker of the object, it's a marker of
the topic.
It's true that {-'e'} can be put on a noun that is an
object,
so B isn't exactly wrong, but the purpose of B as
opposed to
A is to put special emphasis on the object noun: "I
need
a COMMUNICATOR". It's far more common to leave off
the
{-'e'} with a simple noun object. There's an example
in
TKD (The Klingon Dictionary): {HaqwI''e' DaH yISam}
"Find
a SURGEON now!" But it's mainly to show that in some
cases,
you can put the object noun before an adverbial {DaH}.

> Also another one, page 119 of the Klingon way.
> 
> Mercy or Power.
> 
> pung ghap HoS.
> 
> Isn't that using verbs AS NOUNS? then woudln't it
> be incorrect to keep ghap in the middle? but it's
> there... and then again, if it's treated as
> sentences, then why is it not pagh, instead?
>

These are most likely being treated as nouns, which
puts
{ghap} in the wrong place, but we generally figure
that the
sayings in TKW (The Klingon Way) are ancient and
time-honored,
and sometimes use grammar that is no longer "correct"
by
modern standards.

> Also, when can and when can't you combine nouns? 
> 
> And i'm under the impression, that since klingon
> has a "pattern" that if you use all the words
> correctly, you can invent new ones logically on your
> own because it's patterned. Just like people in
> france who don't know hwo to say jackpot, could
> recognize at the same time, that cagnotte means
> jackpot. Let's speak klingon more, and perhaps we
> should recognize this...
> 
>

The usual policy and advice of the the KLI and the
mailing
list is Don't do it. It is tempting to start
combining
word elements to make new words, especially because
the
formation patterns look so simple, but you always have
to
beware of the "hindsight effect": a word that looks
obvious
to you might be meaningless to the next person. 
Instead of
coining a new word when you need to express something
you 
can't find in the dictionary, try a short description
instead.
At the very least, make a Noun-Noun compound (i.e.,
separate
the elements with a space) instead of a compound word.

Hope that helps. Keep posting, and put KLBC on any
post you
want me to comment specially on.

--ter'eS BG





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