tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 13 14:35:52 2004

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Re: "ser" and "estar" (to be)

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

Voragh:
> > There is, however, a slight wrinkle when using pronouns to refer to
> > location:  you have to say PRONOUN + {-taH} "continuous".  E.g.:

SuStel:
>My guess is this isn't so much a linguistic requirement as a practical one.

I'm not so sure.  Just to play Fek'lhr's advocate for a moment, Okrand used 
{PRO+taH} even for temporary locations.  E.g.:

   pa'Daq jIHtaH
   I'm in the room. TKD

   pa'wIjDaq jIHtaH
   I am in my quarters. TKD

   pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH la''e'
   The commander is in his quarters. TKD

   jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'
   I'm lost. TKD

   naDev bIHtaH
   Here they are. PK

>Given the right circumstances, I could see other suffixes being used this way.
>
>   wa' rep ret jImej; DaH naDev jIHqa'.
>   I left an hour ago; now I'm here again.

I would expect to hear {DaH naDev jIHtaHqa'}.

There are no examples of {-qa'} being used on a pronoun.  Okrand writes 
(TKD 37) about {-qa'}:  "Using this suffix implies that an action had been 
taking place, then it stopped, and then it began again".  Is {jIH} "I am" 
really an *action*?

>   pa'lIjDaq jIHlI'.
>   I'm in your room (and will be until I don't have to be anymore).

There are no examples of any other Type 7 suffix being used on a pronoun 
other than {-taH}, and all the examples of the latter are those I provided 
in my last post showing location.

Okrand writes (TKD 42f.) that "{-lI'} implies that the activity has a known 
goal or a definite stopping point. In other words, it suggests that 
progress is being made toward that goal."   Again, I'm not sure that 
"being" is an activity.  Linguistically at least, pronouns-as-verbs behave 
as stative verbs, not action verbs.

>   pa' 'oH!  DaH pa' 'oH!  DaH pa' 'oH!
>   There it is!  Now it's over there!  Now it's over there!
>   (said pointing at an erratically-moving object)

This one without any suffix, however, I think is quite possible.  I can 
easily imagine hearing this from a frustrated {nuHpIn} trying to get a lock 
on an enemy ship continuously cloaking and decloaking in the midst of battle.



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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