tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 21 07:42:59 2004
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Re: Probability
ter'eS:
> >>Someone was wondering last week how to express probability,
> >>as in "There's a ninety-nine percent chance of rain today."
> >>I don't think anyone really answered, but I've been musing on
> >>it ever since. How about:
> >>
> >> DaHjaj HutmaH Hut [vatlhvI'] DuH 'oH SISmeH DuH'e'.
> >>
> >>You could extend this to other types of events, too:
> >>
> >> SIbDoH'e' vaghmaH Soch vatlhvI' DuH 'oH yuQ paw'meH DuH.
> >> "There is a 57% probability that the satellite will hit the
> >> planet."
De'vID:
>It works, but I'm not sure about the use of <-meH> here, or <DuH>
>either. Assuming <DuH> can mean "possibility" in this sense (which is
>different from the sense of "option"), the phrase <SISmeH DuH>
>"possibility [for the purpose of/in order to] rain" strikes me as odd. I
>just don't see "rain" as the
>purpose or goal of "possibility".
>
>How about <'eb> instead of <DuH>?
Good idea; I didn't think of it. See below.
Voragh:
> >These seem a bit wordy. Looking at our single example of {vatlhvI'}
> >"percent":
> >
> > cha'maHvagh vatlhvI' Hong; QIt yIghoS!
> > Slow to one quarter impulse power. ST5
> > (lit. "Twenty-five percent impulse power; proceed slowly!")
De'vID:
>Now this is interesting... what is the relationship between the words
><cha'maHvagh vatlhvI'> and <QIt>? Do we know what the ship's speed was
>before Klaa issued this command? If the prior speed had been, say, 10%
>impulse power, would he have had to say: <cha'maHvagh vatlhvI' Hong; nom
>yIghoS!> "Increase speed to one quarter impulse power" (i.e. "25% impulse
>power; proceed quickly!")?
IIRC, the Klaa's ship was dropping out of warp in order to attack
Enterprise. Here's the Klingon in the scene as I've transcribed it (the
breaks indicate bits of English dialogue where the POV shifted to Kirk on
the shuttlecraft returning to Enterprise):
Vixis: chorghSaD qelI'qam HIvchuq 'e' vInoH.
(Estimating attack range in 8,000 kellicams.)
Klaa: ghoSmeH yIpegh. cha'maHvagh vatlhvI' Hong; QIt yIghoS.
(Stealth approach. Slow to one-quarter impulse power.)
Klaa: yISo'rup. So'wI' yIchu'!
(Prepare to cloak. Engage cloaking device.)
Klaa: qIrq. DujHomDaq ghaHtaH!
(Kirk! He's on the shuttlecraft!)
Klaa: HIvHe yIchoHmoH!
(Alter the attack course!)
Klaa: yISo'Ha'rup, yIghuS.
(Stand by to de-cloak for firing.)
Klaa: 'entepray' yIghoS.
(Bear on Enterprise.)
Vixis: 'entepray' 'oH DoS'e'
(Enterprise targeted!)
Klaa: vIbaH!
(Firing!)
Klaa: HeDaj yIqIm!
(Track her course!)
Klaa: [ghuy'] po'qu'!
([Damn] He's good.)
>Is <QIt> (and hence <nom>) relative?
Aren't they always?
Voragh:
> >we might try a more abbreviated style:
> >
> > HutmaHHut vatlhvI' DuH; DaHjaj SIS.
> > Ninety-nine percent possibility; it'll rain today.
> >
> > chaq DaHjaj SIS: HutmaHHut vatlhvI' DuH.
> > Perhaps it'll rain today: a ninety-nine percent possibility.
De'vID:
>Following the <QIt yIghoS> example, I'd stick a <ghaytan> in there:
><HutmaHHut vatlhvI' 'eb; ghaytan DaHjaj SIS>; <wa' vatlhvI' 'eb;
>ghaytanHa' DaHjaj SIS>. Of course that naturally leads to the question of
>what to use for the, say, 40%-60% range.
Voragh:
> >Vocabulary note: In addition to the noun {DuH} (used in the phrase {Hoch
> >DuH yIqel} "Consider every possibility!" [cf. KGT 108-110]) we also have
> >the homophonous verb {DuH} "be possible" and its synonym {qIt} "be
> >possible", both of which should work for "be probable".
>
>What about <'eb>? I know this has been used in the CK tape (<'eb Qav!>
>"last call!")... any other uses that might throw some light on whether
>it's appropriate here?
Here's {'eb} "opportunity, chance, opening" in canon:
<<'eb Qav>> jatlhpu'
He said, "Last call!" CK
Hoch 'ebmey tIjon
Capture all opportunities. TKW
["In Klingon, opportunities are captured [jon], not taken; a missed
opportunity is said to have escaped [nargh]." (TKW 51)]
reH 'eb tu'lu'
There is always a chance. TKW
jIpaSqu'mo' narghpu' qaSuchmeH 'eb
I was too late to visit you."
("Because I'm very late, the opportunity to visit you has escaped.")
(st.k 1/98)
qaSuch vIneH 'ach narghpu' 'eb. jIpaSqu'
I was too late to visit you."
("I want to visit you, but the opportunity has escaped. I am very
late.") (st.k 1/98)
qaSuchlaHbe'. jIpaSqu' vaj narghpu' 'eb
I was too late to visit you."
("I cannot visit you. I am very late, thus the opportunity has
escaped.") (st.k 1/98)
Our only knowledge of the noun {DuH} "possibility" comes from the
discussion in KGT (pp. 108-10) of the idiom {Hoch nuH qel} "consider every
weapon":
This is an idiom cloaked in the terminology of the military that has
a wider application. It is used to mean "Consider every possibility"
or "Consider every option," with the word {nuH} ("weapon") standing
metaphorically for "possibility"... It is not a set phrase, so it is
heard in various forms, such as a command ({Hoch nuH yIqel!}--literally,
"Consider every weapon!" but meaning "Consider every possibility!"),
question ({Hoch nuH Daqel'a'?} ["Did you consider every weapon?"]), or
statement ({Hoch nuH wIqelpu'} ["We've considered every weapon"]), and
it can be negated ({Hoch nuH qelbe'} ["He/she does not consider every
weapon"]). The regular word for "possibility" is {DuH}, and, grammati-
cally, there is no reason it could not occur instead of {nuH} in these
sentences ({Hoch DuH yIqel} ["Consider every possibility!"] is a per-
fectly well formed sentence), but this is simply not the normal way
to express the advice. The use of {nuH} ("weapon") for {DuH} ("possi-
bility") may have been influenced by the Krotmag dialect pronunciation
of {DuH} as something very close to {nuH} ...
And to be thorough, here's what I have for the homophonous verb {DuH} "be
possible":
yIntaHvIS qIrq DuHbe' roj
There will be no peace as long as Kirk lives. (ST5 notes)
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
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