tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Sep 09 09:26:46 2003
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Re: lyrics
At 08:00 PM Monday 9/8/2003, you wrote:
> >> ..."We go from West to East Berlin. West to East Berlin."
>
>ja' Tyler Fisher <[email protected]>:
> >I'm sure others might have better suggestions, but you might try this:
> >
> > {*Berlin* 'ev tIngvo' *Berlin* chanDaq maghoS.
> > *Berlin* 'ev tIngvo' *Berlin* chanDaq.}
ghunchu'wI':
>Watch out for the difference between "East of Berlin" and "Berlin of the
>East". I'm pretty sure {chan Berlin} is right; I'm *certain* that {Berlin
>chan} is not.
lugh ghunchu'wI'. The use of cardinal directions in Klingon is a bit
tricky. Here's part of Okrand's relevant explanation (startrek.klingon
11/21/99):
But Klingon {chan} does not work the same as English "east". From the
Klingon point of view, it makes no sense to say that something is "in
the east". One can go towards the east, something can be to the east of
something else, but nothing can actually be "in" the east. No matter how
far eastward you go, there's something still to your east. Thus the
awkward translations "area eastward, area towards the east" and so forth.
(And, of course, the same can be said for the other directions.) These
Klingon direction nouns work in the same manner as other nouns of location
(nouns used to express prepositional concepts) such as {Dung} "area above,"
{bIng} "area below", and {retlh} "area beside, area next to". Thus, just
as {nagh Dung}, literally "rock area-above" or "rock's area-above" is used
for "above the rock", {veng chan}, literally "city area-eastward" or "city's
eastward area" is commonly translated "east of the city". Depending on the
sentence in which the phrase is used, the second noun in this construction
(in this case {chan} "area eastward") could take the locative suffix {-Daq},
as in: {veng chanDaq jIwam} "I hunt east of the city". The "city in the
east"
(actually, "city toward the east") or "eastern city" would be the "area-
eastward city": {chan veng}. Again, if appropriate, the locative suffix
{-Daq} follows the second noun: {chan vengDaq jIwam} "I hunt in the city in
the east". The "city's east", meaning "the eastern part of the city", would
make use of {yoS} "area, district": {veng chan yoS} (literally "city area-
eastward district" or "city's eastward-area's district"). The directional
nouns may also be used with possessive suffixes.
So we have {BERLIN chan} "(area) east of Berlin" (e.g. a suburb or the
outskirts) vs. {chan BERLIN} "the east's Berlin, Berlin in the east,
eastern Berlin" (i.e. the one east of here [e.g. Moscow in Russia vs.
Moscow in Idaho). However WRT to divided cities like Berlin, the best
option seems to be {BERLIN chan yoS} "Berlin's east, the eastern district
of Berlin".
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons