tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 10 01:30:23 2003
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Re: {oy}, diphthong or V+C
ghItlh "Sangqar (Sean Healy)" <[email protected]>:
>Similarly, for me words ending in "-tion" have a schwa followed by an "n",
So you think *neySen* (using klingon symbols)
but the IPA says *neySn* (nation = ['neISn])
>>To keep this on topic for *Klingon* pronunciation, I don't pronounce
>>English "boy" and Klingon {Hoy} to rhyme with each other. "Toy" has a
>>single "oy" diphthong. {Hoy} has {o} followed by a {y}, as two distinct
>>sounds.
That sounds like you say {Ho-y}, but it's definitely pornounced {Hoy}, rhyming with boy and toy and Qoy
>Aha! I do not. I pronounce them both as diphthongs, although the Klingon
>diphthong is somewhat tighter than the corresponding American English one.
I think the problem you guys have here is that a diphtong is per definition made of two vowels, but in Klingon, {y}
is a consonant.
>I base the use of diphthongs on TKD 1.2 (p. 16-17 in the English edition)..
majQa'! ;-)
>Not only does he explicitly state that Klingon {oy} rhymes with English
>"toy", he says that {ow} and {uw} are inpossible combinations, the {w}
>getting swallowed up in the preceding vowel (note: not MO's wording). I
>fail to see how they would do that if {w} did not cause diphthongs when
>behind a vowel, and if {w}, then presumably also {y}.
Yes, following a vowel, {w} is pronounced like {u} {'Iw, qaw, qew}[Iu, kau, qeu], but after {o} and {u} this
makes no sense of course, because """they would be indistinguishable from words ending in {o} and {u,}
respectively.""" [TKD]
>My first contribution to this thread was a question asking whether anyone
>actually pronounced them separately,
Sorry, I didn't follow the beginning of the conversation. What was your question??
>and also how MO pronounces them. Even
>if we assume that the movies,
Hm..., average.
> TV shows,
Ooh...bad!
>and the Power Klingon audio tape
This one's great!! Marc Okrand speaks.
>MO's pronunciation at least should be considered canon.
It is.
>So I think Conversational Klingon should be the basis for
>our proununciation.
Another good source is the language lab at the KlingonCD. All the possible letter combinations are explained
*and* pronounced. It's even pronounced by both Marc Okrand and Robert O'Reilly (Gowron), I would dare to
say that they are both canon (Bob does a great job!)
Marc Okrand says in the program
<<<{oy} like "oy" in federation standard "toy">>>
>tell us whether he says /oj/ or /oI/ for {oy}.
According to my dictionary, "toy" is [toI], so I conclude:
{oy} -- [oI]
and
{ay} -- [aI]
{ey} -- [eI]
{uy} -- [u:I]
{Iy} -- [i:]
Quvar
Beginners' Grammarian
and also phonetics-addicted :-)