tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 10 08:54:02 2003
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Re: [KLBC] De'wI'wIj
"...Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
>One thing I'm not certain is how to convey the English phrase "for five
>minutes at a time," which is what I think you were trying to say with
>{vagh tupmey } I'll leave that to a real KLBC expert type to help with.
There is only *one* KLBC expert, that's the Beginners' Grammarian.
THAT'S ME! <<<<zzzzzzzaaapp!>>>> *theregoesthepainstick*
I'll forgive you 'this' time... }};-)
(Read the FAQ for the use of KLBC: http://www.bigfoot.com/~dspeers/klingon/faq.htm)
On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, James Copeman wrote:
> veQDuj 'oH De'wI'wIj'e'.
> pIj vagh tupmey Hegh Qu'Homqoq QaplawtaHvIS ('e'). vImuSbej!
>Could you check the above for me, I'm not sure about the 2nd sentence and
>the use of the bracketed ['e'].
It would be a useful help if you include the english of what you want to say, so it's easier for me to check the translation
"...Paul" translates:
>"MY computer is a garbage scow."
Attention! The n#5 {-'e'} is used here not for emphasis, it needs to be there because it is a "ToBe" construction
{veQDuj 'oH De'wI'wIj'e'.}
means
"My computer is a garbage scow."
"...Paul" translates:
>"Often five minutes all over, I certainly hate that it dies while it seems
>to be operating."
You forgot the part {Qu'Homqoq}
literal translation is
"often five minutes so-called minor tasks die while apparently working. I certainly hate it."
{pIj vagh tupmey Hegh Qu'Homqoq Qaplaw'taHvIS ('e'). vImuSbej!}
I understand it like the following:
"I hate it that small tasks often die for five minutes while they apparently work"
>Notes: You missed the ' in the { -law' } suffix (should be {Qaplaw'taHvIS}
>Also, you don't need { -mey } in the phrase { vagh tupmey }. The fact
>that you're supply a number, { vagh } implicitly means the noun is plural.
>Klingon doesn't (usually) require specific notation of plurality if it's
>obvious from context.
That's correct.
>Actually, you're using the sentence marker { 'e' } correctly here. Your
>main verb is { vImuS } "I hate it" and the object of your hatred is the
>statement that your computer dies.
Yes, but then you don't need the period between to sentences:
{...QaptaHvIS 'e' vImuS}
You can make any sentence, and then just add {'e' vImuS}. Then it means "I hate (it) that ..."
This is briefly spoken the way Sentence as Object works
>However, I don't think you should be using {Hegh} "die" for this. The
>machine doesn't have a life, per se, and the English use of "die" in this
>case is really idiomatic. It might be more correct (and actually simpler)
>to say:
... to use the verb {Qap}, which means "succeed, win (a competition)", and since to a Klingon, to win is to function perfectly, it also means "work, function, operate,
be in operation".
The opposite, "not work" or "malfunction" is {QapHa'}, using the verbsuffix {-Ha'}
>pIj QapHa'law' De'wI'wIj 'e' vImuSbej
>"I hate that my computer often seems to malfunction."
>"Often my computer seems to malfunction. I hate that."
>
>Note that there is a subtle distinction between this and:
>
>QapHa'law'mo' De'wI'wIj vImuSbej
>"I hate my computer because it seems to malfunction."
That's correct
Note there is also a distinction when you do not use the {'e'}
{pIj QapHa'law' De'wI'wIj 'e' vImuSbej}
"Often my computer seems to malfunction, I definitely hate that."
(= I hate this fact of not functioning)
{pIj QapHa'law' De'wI'wIj. vImuSbej}
"Often my computer seems to malfunction. I definitely hate it."
(= It is the computer that I hate.)
"...Paul"
>One thing I'm not certain is how to convey the English phrase "for five
>minutes at a time," which is what I think you were trying to say with
Maybe qeraQ could give us the english translation, so that we don't have to guess.
>{pIj vagh tupmey Hegh Qu'Homqoq Qaplaw'taHvIS ('e'). vImuSbej!}
I understand it like the following:
"I hate it that small tasks often die for five minutes while they apparently work"
If you like to say that the computer "hangs" for a few minutes, I'd say it with the verb {qaS} "happen", in the form "while five minutes happen" {qaStaHvIS vagh tup}
qeraQ:
>Could someone explain Sentence as Object for me? I don't get the explanation in TKD.
I understand, there's a lot information there, do this, don't do that, but exception here.
It all comes down to this:
If you want to have a whole sentence as the object of a verb, the translations usually are "I see that ...", "I know that...", "he believes that ..." a.s.o.
To get this, first say the sentence, followed by the {'e'}, which represents the preceding sentence as the object of the verb which comes - as usual - at the end.
Examples explain best:
I'm hungry. You know it. {jIghung} {DaSov}
You know that {'e' DaSov}
"you know that I'm hungry"
--> {jIghung 'e' DaSov}
{mulegh} "he sees me"
{mulegh 'e' vIHar} "I believe that he sees me"
The exception is the verb {neH} for things like "I want that you blahblah..."
There's no need to think, because you do not need the {'e'}.
Just say a sentence, followed by {vIneH} "I want" - and you end up with a Sentence As Object sentence :-)
{jISop. vIneH}
"I eat. I want it."
{jISop vIneH}
"I want to eat."
Of course this also works with longer and difficiult sentences the same way:
{loghDaq Suvrupbogh SuvwI'pu' chaH Hoch SuvwI'pu''e'}
"In space, all warriors are cold warriors." (TKW#25)
+
{vIneH}
"I want it."
=
{loghDaq Suvrupbogh SuvwI'pu' chaH Hoch SuvwI'pu''e' vIneH}
"I want that in space, all warriors are cold warriors."
And now, get off my chair! }};-)
Quvar
Beginners' Grammarian
ghojwI'pu'wI' vISaH