tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 04 09:11:23 2002
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Re: Hoch, 'op, bID, pagh, chang'eng
> >Hoch chabmey – all the pies; all pies
> > [also "generic Hoch" as in "take any pie in the universe and
> > you'll see it has a certain property"?]
>
> This refers to "all the pies" taken as a collection. The individuality
> of the components is not relevant.
"Kor stole all the pies"
> >Hoch chab – (SuStel:) each pie
>
> The pies are being considered individually. There are perhaps more than
> one of them, but the important thing is that you're talking about them
> one at a time.
"The captain tasted each pie"
> >chab Hoch - (SuStel:) all of the pie (the same as "chab naQ"?)
>
> They are emphatically not the same! {naQ} is a quality, not a quantifier.
> {chab naQ} is talking about a pie which is complete. It's not talking
> about the amount of the pie.
chab Hoch
"The captain ate all of the pie; there was nothing left of it."
chab naQ
"There were two pies, one that was whole, and one that already had a piece
taken from it. He took the pie that was whole."
> >chabmey Hoch - all of the pies (in a batch/lot)
> > [context: wa'maH chab(mey) vIvut. 'ey *chabmey Hoch*.
> > (I cooked ten pies. All of the pies were delicious)]
>
> My understanding of a trailing {Hoch} is limited to having it apply to
> a single thing. KGT page 155:
>
> nIn Hoch natlhlu'pu'
chabmey Hoch, just like above when the captain ate all of the pie; here he eats
all of more than one pie.
"The captain ate all of both pies."
> >HochHom chabmey? - ?most of the pies
>
> Something like that, but with the implication that the pies which are being
> talked about make up a single group, and the focus is more on the
> group than on the individual pies.
"Kor stole most of the pies"
> >HochHom chab? - ?most of the pie
>
> It would translate better as "most pies", I think. "Most of the pie"
> would almost certainly be {chab HochHom}.
"Kor took a bite from almost every pie"
> >chab HochHom – (SuStel:) almost all of the pie
>
> Yes, in the manner of the "most of the 23rd Century" example from Skybox
> S15.
"The captain ate most of the pie. There is still a piece left."
> >chabmey HochHom - ?most of the pies (i.e. the majority of them)
>
> I can't make the meaning of this one settle down in my head,
"The guests ate most of the pies. There is a piece or two left of each pie."
DloraH