tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jul 02 08:38:58 2001

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corrected email re:confusion with correct spellings


A few years ago I requested help with names for a persona I was
developing. One of the names I was going to be using was spelled in
English ,which I will refer to as Federation Std, was Matok.Since there is
no 'k' in tlhIngan Hol I translated the spelling to be 'matoq' and was
told this was correct.
While glancing through KGT yesterday I saw an item with got me confused.
On page 198 ,in the chapter on 'Direct Address an example is used with the
name Martok. This name is close to the name I was using, however I noticed
that not only was the 'k' changed to a  'q' , as I had done, but the final
vowel 'o', was changed to an 'a'. I don't understand why. Why is 'martoq'
written as 'martaq'? Is the 'martaq' the way 'martoq' sounds when
pronounced? I also noticed that Gowron is {fed spelling} also is spelled
with the 'o's being replaced by 'a'. On page 16 of TKD I do see under
chapter 1.2 [vowels] ,that 'when a vowel is followed by a 'w' or 'y' the
combination of letters may not represent the same sound it does in English
spelling ie: klingon        rhymes with English    as in
              aw                  ow                cow

This would explain the Gowron---->ghawran example
but I don't understand Martok---->martaq
and whether my 'matoq' should be changed to mataq or not .

Is the name matoq *and martoq [as example] spelled [written out]
matoq/martoq but *vocalized* as 'mataq/martoq then ?

I just located the original post I made 2 years ago and the answer I
received on this list. There is some good info there so I'm reposting the
entire message , but in re-reading I also picked up on 'Martok' being
written as 'martaq' but I still don't know why the 'o' becomes an 'a'in
that example.
>From sboozer Mon Jul  2 08:57:39 2001
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:05:33 -0500
From: Steven Boozer
To: [email protected]
Cc: malqa <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: new to list/help needed

malqa wrote:

: I am new to this list and have a question about proper format for
: giving my klingon name.  I always used
:   malqa tuq matoq
:   (my name) (house)(linename)

This translates as "Malka, House Matok", an appositive formula widely used
in fandom, but not by Okrand.  He prefers the possessive formula {malqa
matoq tuq} "Malka, House of Matok".  (Think of it as "Matok's House" and
you'll always get the word order right.)

: and lately added my father's name: ghera puqbe'

This part is correct: "daughter of Ghera".  Here are two extracts from
"Klingon for the Galactic Traveller" which you may find helpful WRT Klingon
patronyms:

  "It is always proper to call somebody by his or her name alone... During
formal
  occasions, it is also not uncommon to refer to someone by his or her
father's
  name, such as {mogh puqloD} (son of Mogh) or a combination of given name
plus
  father's name, such as {HuS 'atrom puqbe'} (Huss, daughter of A'trom)."
[p.197]

  "For example, in the ceremony to induct new members into the Order of the
  Bat'leth (betleH 'obe'), the highest honor that the government bestows on a
  Klingon, the presiding official, usually the leader of the Klingon High
Council,
  first reads a name from the naD tetlh (Commendation List), always calling
out
  the inductee's name in the most formal way (given name plus father's
name, such
  as {tI'vIS barot puqloD} [T'vis, son of Barot])."  [p.182]


: but today in the archives I found a format that puts *tuq* at the
: very end such as
:   malqa ghera puqbe' matoq tuq

This version is the preferred style:  Malka, daughter of Ghera ("Ghera's
daughter"), House of Matok ("Matok's House").

: Which is correct for me to use
:   My name plus linename
:   malqa matoq tuq

Yes.  "Malka, House of Matok" - if you just need to identify just your House.

: My name ,linename and father's name
:   malqa ghera puqbe' matoq tuq

Again, this is the full formal pattern: "Malka, daughter of Ghera, House of
Matok" - your name, father's name, linename.  Notice how it proceeds from
specific (you) to more general (your father), then to the even more general
(you and your father's House).

Here is a post by Okrand to the old Expert Forum newsgroup on MSN which
goes into more detail on the etiquette of Klingon naming formulae:

*****************************************************************************
From: "Marc Okrand" Newsgroups: msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand
Date: 01 Sep 1997
Subject: Re: family names

According to Maltz, there are at least a couple of ways to identify a
Klingon's house (or <tuq>).

One way is the way you suggested.  To say "Kahlor of the House of Molor"
(or, if you prefer, "Kahlor from the House of Molor"), you'd say simply
"Kahlor, House of Molor":

    qeylor molor tuq

If you want to be even more formal, the name of the father may be used as
well -- again, as you suggested.  "Kahlor, son of Kahlin, of the House of
Molor" is "Kahlor, son of Kahlin, House of Molor":

    qeylor qeylIn puqloD molor tuq

The other way is actually more formal and a bit formulaic.  To say "Kahlor
is of the House of Molor" (or "Kahlor is from the House of Molor"), you
could say:

    tay' qeylor molor tuq je

This is literally "Kahlor and the House of Molor are together" (<tay'> "be
together," <je> "and").  The construction is no doubt based on the Klingon
proverb "One is always of his tribe" (literally, "a person and his house
are always together"):

    reH tay' ghot tuqDaj je

If Kahlor is speaking, he could say, "I am of the House of Molor":

    matay' jIH molor tuq je

Or if one were speaking to Kahlor, one could say, "You are of the House of
Molor":

    Sutay' SoH molor tuq je

Literally, these are "The House of Molor and I are together" (<matay'> "we
are together," <jIH> "I," <molor tuq> "House of Molor," <je> "and"), "The
House of Molor and you are together" (<Sutay'> "you [plural] are together,"
<SoH> "you").  The independent pronouns (<jIH> "I" and <SoH> "you" in the
examples above) are always used in this construction.
*****************************************************************************

To sum up, here is the full name of Trek's favorite Klingon: {wor'Iv mogh
puqloD martaq tuq} "Worf, son of Mogh, House of Martok" (at least for the
last two DS9 seasons).

Note that you don't always give your House name.  Of the innumerable times
we've heard Worf identify himself as "Worf, son of Mogh" he very rarely
added "House of Mogh".  This may be because Klingons - or at least
upper-class Klingons - wear their family crest {tuq Degh} openly for
everyone to see.  When Grilka visited Quark on DS9, Worf asked Jadzia who
she was since he didn't recognize her crest - not surprising since she
belonged to a minor House out in Kronos' Mekro'vak region (wherever that
is).  Worf wears his crest on his sash {Ha'quj} over his Starfleet uniform,
but Klingon warriors seem to wear theirs on their (right?) furry black
uniform sleeve {tlhay}.  When Martok accepted Worf into his House, he took
the crest off his sleeve and formally handed it to Worf, who placed it on
his sash after removing the crest for the defunct House of Mogh.

How's that for a long answer to a simple question?

-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
====================================================================

Please help ...

Lt.Commander Maud "malqa" Freifelder         l MAJ. Maud Freifelder SFMC(R)
Chief Security Officer USS Triumph NCC-26228 l Military Police
"Triumph Against All Odds"                   l 622 MSG  2 BN/2 BDE
STARFLEET/Region 2                           l "Have Phaser, Will Travel"
                         [email protected]/aka tfn.net

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