tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Nov 16 21:18:36 1999

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Re: Klingon WOTD: baj (v)



> yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu' 
> Survival must be earned. TKW

charghwI' wrote:
 
: So far as I know, this is the only example of {'e' Xlu'}, and it 
: has this unique meaning that one must earn that one (the same 
: one who is doing the earning) lives.

There's another, also with [baj} as it happens:

  yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu' 
  Victory must be earned. TKW

: So, Voragh, your services would help here. Are there other 
: examples of pairs of verbs with {-lu'} such that the assumption 
: is that we are talking about the same indefinite subject? Things 
: like {Xlu'chugh Ylu'} or {Xlu'taHvIS Ylu'} or {Xlu'mo' Ylu'} are 
: what I'd be looking for. 

Here are all the pairs of verbs with {-lu'} I can find:

  pujwI' HIvlu'chugh quvbe'lu' 
  There is no honor in attacking the weak. TKW

  batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS quv chavbe'lu' 
  One does not achieve honor while acting dishonorably. TKW

  Heghlu'DI' mobbe'lu'chugh QaQqu' Hegh wanI' 
  Death is an experience best shared.  TKW

  'oy'be'lu'chugh Qapbe'lu' 
  No pain, no gain. TKW

  noH QapmeH wo' Qaw'lu'chugh yay chavbe'lu' 'ej wo' choqmeH may'
   DoHlu'chugh lujbe'lu' 
  Destroying an empire to win a war is no victory, and ending a
   battle to save an empire is no defeat. TKW

  loS... 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH He ghoSlu'bogh
   retlhDaq 'oHtaH
  It waits... on the edge of the galaxy, beside a passage to unknown
   regions of the universe  DSN99
  ["(It is) next to the route one follows to travel to the unknown
   regions of the universe."]

  qorDu' SaHlu'chugh 'ej matlhlu'chugh vaj wa' tlhIngan ghob potlhqu' 
  devotion and loyalty to family is one of the most important Klingon
   virtues. S13

  wa'DIch tlhIngan Dujmey luleghlu'pu'bogh rur qItI'nga Duj tera'
   vatlh DISpoH cha'maH wej HochHom lo'lu'taH 
  Similar in configuration to the first Klingon vessels encountered,
   the K'Tinga-class remained in use for most of the 23rd century. S15

  yIntaHbogh tlhIngan Soj tlhol jablu'DI' tIvqu'lu' 
  Klingon food is best when served fresh and live. S21

  HovpoH Hut vagh cha' wa' vI' jav Dujvam 'aghlu'pu' 'ach Qaw'lu'pu' 
  [untranslated on card] S33
  
As to why he didn't translate the phrase with {... net Sov}, the answer is
simple: Okrand doesn't use {net}.  Period.

It occurred only once in the "real world":

  Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej 
  "You will find it useful." (ST3 subtitles)

As charghwI' himself posted on this list some time ago:

  this line was one of those Valkris was filmed saying in English,
  then redubbed in Klingon. Okrand had to match lip movements. The
  subtitle was something like "You'll find it useful." There was no
  mention of "for the mission" in the subtitle, but Okrand needed to
  add something to give her a reason to keep her lips moving. Note
  that lip movements for "You'll find" look a lot like {Qu'vaD},
  "it" looks a lot like {lI'} and "useful" loosely matches {tu'bej}.

When Okrand wrote TKD after the movie, he was forced to invent some grammar
to cover this "Valkris-ism":

  Klingon has two special pronouns, {'e'} and {net}, which refer to 
  the previous sentence as a whole. They are used primarily, though
  not exclusively, with verbs of thinking or observation (such as
  "know, see"). They are always treated as the object of the verb,
  and the verb always takes a prefix indicating a third-person
  singular object. What is a single sentence in English is often two
  sentences in Klingon. {net} is used only under special circumstances,
  but 'e' is common ... In complex sentences of this type, the second
  verb never takes an aspect suffix. (section 4.2.7) When the verb of
  the second sentence has a third-person subject (that is, the
  pronominal prefix is 0) but the intended meaning is one or someone,
  rather than "he", "she", "it", or "they", {net} is used instead of
  {'e'}. 
    qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov
    One knows we kill prisoners ...
  the first sentence here is {qama'pu' DIHoH} "We kill prisoners". The
  second sentence is {net Sov} "One knows that". The full construction
  implies that it is common knowledge that the group to which the
  speaker belongs kills prisoners.
    Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej
    One certainly finds it useful for the mission. 
  The first part of this example is {Qu'vaD lI'} "It is useful for the
  mission". The second part is {net tu'bej} "One certainly finds that"
  or {One certainly observes that". The full construction might also
  be translated "One will certainly observe that it is useful to the
  mission".  (TKD p. 65f)

Note again:

  {net} is used only under special circumstances, but {'e'} is common

For some reason, even after going into such detail in the Dictionary,
Okrand took an intense dislike to {net} and has never used it again in any
other source AFAIK.  This prejudice explains the frequent use of {'e'} even
where the grammar is unusual, even controversial.




-- 
Voragh                       
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons 


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