tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 15 09:59:48 1999

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Re: -moH Curiousity {was Re: deep structures}

mujang ter'eS.   jIja':

>  >    a. /SoHvaD jagh SuvmoH yaS/ : /jagh DuSuvmoH yaS/
>  >        "The officer makes you fight the enemy."
>  >    b. /jagh SuvmoH yaS/  "The officer makes (someone) fight the enemy".
>  > 
>  > -> ->       NOT "The officer makes the enemy fight (someone)."
>  > 
>  >    c. /SuvmoH yaS/  "The officer makes (someone) fight him/them".
>  >       rurchu'law'
>  >    d. /SuvmoH yaS/ "The elder makes (someone) fight."
>                  /qup/?? 8+)
>  >    e. /SoHvaD SuvmoH yaS/ : /DuSuvmoH yaS/  "The officer makes you fight
>  > him/them."
>  >       rurchu'law'
>  >    f. /DuSuvmoH yaS/  "The officer makes you fight."
>  > 
>  > chovnatlh b. wIqeltaHvIS, SuQoch'a'?   SuQochbe''a'?

'ej ja' ter'eS:
 
>  jIQochbe'chu' jIH.
...
>  I'd just caution that we may want to come to a consensus about the full
>  form of a transitive /-moH/ sentence before we try to decide how the prefix
>  trick applies to it. 

The abbreviated examples are there because I tested this set of six forms with
several other verbs before seeing SuvmoH as convincing.   The first couple are
related to the meaning of /ghojmoH/; I wanted to find clear patterns and see
how 
they generalized.   Here they are, in case they are of interest to others:

1. chovnatlh ghom wa':
   a. /puqvaD HolQeD vIQIj/  "I explain linguistics to the child."
   b. /HolQeD vIQIj/  "I explain linguistics."
   c. /vIQIj/  "I explain it."
   d. /jIQIj/  "I explain."
   e. /puqvaD vIQIj/  "I explain it to the child."
   f. /puqvaD jIQIj/  "I explain to the child."

2. chovnatlh ghom cha':  
   a. /puqvaD HolQeD vIyajmoH/  "I make the child understand linguistics."
   b. /HolQeD vIyajmoH/  "I make (someone unspecified or indefinite) 
      understand linguistics", or loosely "I make linguistics understood."
   c. /vIyajmoH/  "I make (someone unspecified or indefinite) understand it",
      or loosely "I make it understood."
   d. ??/jIyajmoH/  "I make (someone unspecified or indefinite) understand 
      (something omitted)", or loosely "I make (something omitted)
understood."
   e. /puqvaD vIyajmoH/  "I make the child understand it."
   f. /puqvaD jIyajmoH/  "I make the child understand."

The third group had /SuvmoH/.

4. chovnatlh ghom loS.  

   a. /puqvaD HolQeD choQIjmoH/  "You have me explain linguistics to the
child."
   b. /HolQeD choQIjmoH/  "You have me explain linguistics."
   c. /choQIjmoH/  "You have me explain it."
      rurchu'law'
   d. /choQIjmoH/  "You have me explain."
   e. /puqvaD choQIjmoH/  "You have me explain it to the child."
      rurchu'law'
   f. /puqvaD choQIjmoH/  "You have me explain to the child."

The problems with omitted direct objects (the information passed by the
subject) 
were more a hindrance than a help in figuring out the issue.   2.d is the one
most 
likely to be judged wrong, I think.  The English translations undoubtedly lead
us 
astray.

--jey'el

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