tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 24 08:55:01 1998
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Re: suffixes in comparative sentences
- From: Steven Boozer <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: suffixes in comparative sentences
- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:53:10 -0500 (CDT)
Anthony Appleyard wrote:
: In my absence, has a solution to this query been worked out?:-
: In a sentence with a verb, mood-altering sufixes go on the verb.
: In a sentence with no verb, mood-altering sufixes go on the subject pronoun.
: But where do mood-altering suffixes go in comparative sentences?
:
: My ship is obviously bigger than Maltz's = DujwIj tIn law' matlh Duj tIn
: puS, + -ba'?????
: This translates literally as "ship-my's big[ness] is_many, Maltz's ship's
: big[ness] is_few", but with non-standard word order. Surely there must be SOME
: proper place to put any mood-altering suffixes that it may need?
maSovbe'taH jay'! We still don't know (1) where verbal suffixes are added
(i.e. on the first Q, on the second Q, on both Q's, on {law'} only, on {puS}
only, or on both), or (2) whether *any* suffixes can be added to the verbs
in this formula. Personally, I think the way to say "My ship is obviously
bigger than Maltz's" is *{DujwIj tIn law'ba' matlh Duj tIn puS}, though I
admit that we've never seen anything like this in canon. This may just be
an accident of the sample. However, if (2) is the case, then we cannot say
*{A Q law'be' B Q puS} "A is not Q-er than B". We may be forced to use
something like, "It is not true that A is Q-er than B" etc. Only Maltz
knows for certain.
Here is a summary of {law'/puS} constructions, complete with all the
canonical examples I am aware of. Perhaps you will find some of it helpful
in the discussion.
Okrand introduced the basic construction in TKD (p. 70):
{A Q law' B Q puS} (A is Q-er than B). In this formula, A and B are the
two things being compared and Q is the quality which is being measured...
Any verb expressing a quality or condition may fit into the Q slot.
Examples:
la' jaq law' yaS jaq puS
The commander is bolder than the officer. TKD
la' jaq law' Hoch jaq puS
The commander is boldest of all. TKD
'IwwIj jeD law' 'IwlIj jeD puS
My blood is thicker than yours
(an idiom for "I am much stronger than you.") PK
batlh potlh law' yIn potlh puS
Honor is more important than life. TKW
Okrand communicated privately with members of the KSRP (HolQeD 4.2, p.3)
that pronouns (being a subset of nouns) could indeed be used with stative
verbs. Thus, {SoH po' law' jIH po' puS} is correct. One possible example
from the movies:
qIbDaq SuvwI' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS (??)
You would be the greatest warrior in the galaxy. ST5
A and B are not limited to simple nouns, but can be noun phrases:
targhlIj yab tIn law' no'lIj Hoch yabDu' tIn puS
Your targ has a bigger brain than all your ancestors put together! PK
reH latlh qabDaq qul tuj law' Hoch tuj puS
The fire is always hotter on someone else's face. PK
DujvamDaq tlhIngan nuH tu'lu'bogh pov law' Hoch pov puS 'ej DujvamDaq
'op SuvwI' tu'lu'bogh po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI' law' po' puS
It [IKV Pagh] has the best weapons and some of the finest warriors in
the Klingon fleet. S7
tlhIngan qorDu' pong potlh law' Hoch potlh puS
Above all, the Klingon family name is highly valued. S13
A and B can also be verb phrases:
QamvIS Hegh qaq law' torvIS yIn qaq puS
Better to die on our feet than live on our knees
("Dying while standing is preferable to living while kneeling"). ST6 & TKW
The entire construction can be preceded by a modifying adverbial, location,
or subordinate clause:
reH latlh qabDaq qul tuj law' Hoch tuj puS
The fire is always hotter on someone else's face. PK
tlhutlhmeH HIq ngeb qaq law' bIQ qaq puS
Drinking fake ale is better than drinking water. TKW
noH ghoblu'DI' yay quv law' Hoch quv puS
In war there is nothing more honorable than victory. TKW
DujvamDaq tlhIngan nuH tu'lu'bogh pov law' Hoch pov puS 'ej DujvamDaq
'op SuvwI' tu'lu'bogh po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI' law' po' puS
It [IKV Pagh] has the best weapons and some of the finest warriors in
the Klingon fleet. S7
tlhIngan wo' yuQmey chovlu'chugh Qo'noS potlh law' Hoch potlh puS
The principal planet of the Klingon Empire, Qo'noS... S27
And finally, there are slang variants for {law'} and {puS} (KGT 178f):
The Klingon is braver than the Ferengi
tlhIngan yoH law' verengan yoH puS (standard)
tlhIngan yoH HoS verengan yoH puj (slang)
tlhIngan yoH pIv verengan yoH rop (slang)
tlhIngan yoH Daj verengan yoH qetlh (slang)
Klingons are the bravest of all
tlhIngan yoH law' Hoch yoH puS (standard)
tlhIngan yoH HoS Hoch yoH puj (slang)
tlhIngan yoH jen verengan yoH 'eS (slang)
tlhIngan yoH 'eS verengan yoH jen (slang)
tlhIngan yoH ghegh verengan yoH Hab (slang)
tlhIngan yoH Hab verengan yoH ghegh (slang)
Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej 'e' vItul. If I've missed anything Okrand has said on
this (either on startrek.klingon or in one of his books), please let me know.
- Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons