tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 14 00:43:45 1998

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Re: SuvwI'bom

---Alan Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ja' Qov:
> >Now I'd say {nuq 'oH Dujvetlh'e'} and 'Iv ghaH nIHwI''e'}.  So we are
> >backwards.
> 
> I hesitate to invoke a nonstandard dialect to help; it might backfire.
> But the Morskan border guard in ST6 asked {Dujvets 'o nuq?}  Focus on
> the word order, not the pronunciation, and it matches my example.

Hmm, good point. The question is, did Okrand write the sentence
backwards because it was a backwards dialect or not.  I think probably
he didn't write it backwards and you have evidence for your case.

> >> If I've asked about your name, I consider your name to be the
topic of
> >> my question.  I do *not* consider the word "your name" as that
topic.
> >> {ponglIj 'oH nuq'e'?}
> >
> >Ah, quite the opposite to me.  You've asked about "my name" you
> >haven't asked about Qov.
> 
> If I haven't asked about Qov, why would Qov be the answer?

You don't knowmo' 'Qov' when you ask, it isn't to me the topic.  But I
see how you see it.  I want to answer {nuq 'oH} with {Qov 'oH}.

> >'Iv ghaH loDvetlh'e'?  (the man is the topic)
> >
> >chaq SuvwI' ghaH.
> >teHbe', *meter reader* ghaH loDvetlh'e'.
> >bImuj, vavchaj ghaH.
> >
> >An entire conversation could ensue, with the man as the topic of each
> >sentence.  I'm not going to change your mind on this, but I'm
> >understanding mine better and I'm more sure of myself now.
> 
> This example fits in my mind fine the way you've done it.  You're not
> asking for the identity of the man, you are asking about his function
> or occupation or something else that describes him.

Odd.   I don't see the big distinction.  Are you one of those who
doesn't accept {Qov jIH} either?

> >I see the topicalized noun as saying, "Consider the noun, it is an X"
> >or "Given the noun, what/who is it?"
> 
> But you've changed the word order between these two, and I don't know
> why you've done so.  I see it as "Given the noun, it is what?"

Oh, oh, I didn't mean to reflect the entire Klingon word order with my
sentences, only the feeling of the set-off noun.  The sentences I
refer to are:
X 'oH noun'e' 
and
nuq 'oH noun'e'

If I wrote them in Klingon order, the English would be backwards for me.

> >What does Okrand say?  "As for the noun, they are X."

There this one I was referring to 
puqpu' chaH qama'pu''e' 

> Exactly in the order I interpret it.

Now that I have explained what I meant there, what do you think?

nuq 'oH ponglIj'e' "As for you name, what is it?"
ponglIj 'oH nuq'e' "As for what? it is your name" or "As for what, is
it your name?"

I think I agree with the person who said difficult to understand
topicalized question words.

> Interestingly, it seems that the sentences that I interpret
differently
> are the ones asking about names.  I generally tend to agree with the
other
> examples people have given.  So maybe it's not the "to be"-ness that
we
> disagree about; maybe it's what we consider a name to be.

chaq.  When you hear /Qov jIH/? hat do you think?
==
Qov - Beginners' Grammarian 

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