tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 26 20:38:52 1998
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Re: KLBC pong (v)
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC pong (v)
- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:39:46 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- Priority: NORMAL
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:30:20 -0800 (PST) Qermaq
<[email protected]> wrote:
> ghItlh Qov:
>
> >I follow your logic, and I'm trying to decide if "give me chocolate" and
> >"call me Ishmael" have the same grammar. I'll say that they do, barring
> >contradiction from one of the real linguists on this group. (I'm not a real
> >linguist, I just play one on the internet).
bIqIDchu'.
> Holtejqoq neH jIH je. 'ach jIyay', Qov...
> Call me Ishmael =/= Call Ishmael for me
That does fit the one example we do have from Okrand, but
realize that langauges are quite inconsistent in their use of
prepositions and if you literally translate the Klingon, "Give
me the chocolate" and "Call me Ismael" both use the preposition
"for".
You could say, {jIHDaq yuch yInob,} but that sounds like you are
saying, "Give the chocolate toward me. Give the chocolate at
me." In other words, give the chocolate to my location. I don't
want you to give it to my location. I want you to give it TO ME,
FOR MY BENEFIT. I am the indirect object of "give" and in
Klingon, that means {-vaD}, not {-Daq}.
So, the full expression would be {jIHvaD yuch yInob.} Meanwhile,
we know that there is a legal shortcut when the indirect object
is first or second person and the object is third person:
yuch HInob.
Similarly, {jIHvaD *Ishmael* yIpong,} might be cut short to
{*Ishmael* HIpong.} This is, I think, why Qov thought the
grammar to be possibly identical.
...
> I like <chay' qapong>. One would answer with their name, if they are honest.
> Again, the object of <pong> is 1st person singular, not the name.
I could go with {chay' qapong,} though it sounds idiomatic to my
ear. It could be answered, {ghoghlIj yIlo'.} If instead, you
ask, {nuq 'oH ponglIj'e'?} the answer is relatively clear. As
for the grammatical form, I see several ways it can be answered,
depending on the meaning:
charghwI' 'oH pongwIj'e'.
jIHvaD charghwI' ponglu'. [which shortens to:]
charghwI' vIponglu'.
charghwI' mupong tlhInganpu'. *Will* mupong tera'nganpu'.
> Qermaq
charghwI'