tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 24 05:01:26 1998
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Re: Nature phenomenon
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Nature phenomenon
- Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 05:00:35 -0800
At 10:37 98-01-23 -0800, charghwI' wrote:
}According to Qov:
}>
}> At 11:11 98-01-22 -0800, you wrote:
}> }According to Qov:
}> }..
}> }> {jev} I believe refers to storm, as in to storm an enemy position, not a
}> }> nature phenomenon.
}> }
}> }I'm curious where you picked that up. I don't see any reference
}> }to this in any of my word lists.
}>
}> Simply because it is a verb. In my idiolect, and in my dictionary "to
}> storm" is to be violent or angry, to attack in that manner. The noun "storm"
}> represents a natural phenomenon, but I would never say "it stormed" or "the
}> weather storms." Always "there was a storm"or "we're experiencing a storm."
}> Marc Okrand has defined words that are nouns in English and verbs in Klingon
}> in a way that is consistent with the way English speakers use them, thus
}> "experience a tremor" not "tremor (v)." I have always considered it wrongly
}> used to describe weather.
}
}I see a difference in "experience a tremor" and "tremor (v)".
}If I am standing on shaking ground, the ground tremors.
You're making my point for me. "tremor" is not a verb referring to shaking
ground. Tremor isn't a verb at all in my dictionary. You're thinking of
tremble. My point here was that things that are a noun concept in English
but a verb concept in Klingon are translated with vocabulary used the ay
English speakers use it. He doesn't say "SuD - blue (v)" and leave us to
shift our concept of blue to verbal.
}experience a tremor. I don't think that definition has anything
}to do with whether English favors the noun or verb. To be fair,
}you should list the entire definition:
Why?
}Qom - experience an earthquake or tremor (v)
}Meanwhile, {jang} is not defined as "give an answer, give a
}reply", which is at least as common as "answer, reply (v)".
Huh? Maybe it's because it's 5 am, but I can't see how this one relates.
}Maybe you have a point and a better example might illuminate
}it, but I don't think you've accomplished that mission yet. The
}verb "storm" is just "storm", be it weather or military until
}we get some better guidance, especially since "rain" and "snow"
}are verbs in Klingon and not nouns (as they are commonly used
}in English).
}
}"Don't go out in the _____ without your boots."
}
}All three weather nouns fit here well in English. In Klingon:
}___-lu'taHvIS DaSmeylIj DatuqnIS!
}
}Those who don't like {-lu'} here, just ignore it.
{jev} is translated as storm (v). The definition of the English verb "to
storm" does not refer to weather. You are arguing that a word should
represent the verbal equivalent of the English noun that is a homonym with
the English verb that is its definition. That logic is as hairy as that
sentence. Consider "point" (v) (meaning indicate) and "point" (n)
(measurement used in scorekeeping). You would not argue that the Klingon
word for point (v) should also mean "to score a point."
The verbs "to rain" and "to snow" are verbs associated with weather in
English so it's reasonable that {SIS} and {peD} be defined simply as verbs
meaning rain and now. ***But "to storm" is not in my dictionary or my
idiolect a verb associated with the weather.*** Therfore I do not believe
{jev} to be a word associated with the weather. (I am stating this carefully
in both postings because I believe there are dialects of English in which
storm is a weather verb).
jevlu'taHvIS jaghpu' DapupmeH DaSmeylIj DaSpu'meylIj je DatuqnISbej.
Qov [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian