tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 06 12:53:14 1998
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Re: DIS chu' Quch
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: DIS chu' Quch
- Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:23:17 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn Stewart <[email protected]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: DIS chu' Quch
>jatlh mIHa'Il
>>chu'bogh DIS 'ej Quchbogh DatIvjaj!
>
>It doesn't quite make sense to me. I read it as "The year which is
>new and may you enjoy which is happy."
No, he's absolutely correct. Consider {SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh} "The tea
that is {SuD} and light" (KGT p.82).
chu'bogh DIS 'ej Quchbogh DatIvjaj!
May you enjoy the year which is new and happy!
My only question is does it have to be a *person* who is happy, or can
periods of time be described as happy, too?
Consider also a proverb from TKW, p. 59: {quv Hutlh HoHbogh tlhIngan 'ach
qabDaj 'angbe'bogh} "The Klingon who kills without showing his face has no
honor." We're not using adjectival verbs here, yet we still see this
dropping of the second, redundant noun.
>Considering grammar and not
>intended meaning, I would accept {chu'bogh 'ej Quchbogh DIS DatIvjaj}
>for "May you enjoy a year that is new and happy." or {chu'bogh DIS
>'ej Quchbogh DIS DatIvjaj} "May you enjoy a new year and a happy
>year." If the word DIS is to serve as the subject of two different
>clauses, it either needed to be repeated (definitely works) or to
>follow both verbs (I think it works but I can't think of an example
>-- might be one in TKW).
Actually, I believe that Okrand's phrase follows the noun-dropping
guidelines on TKD pp. 61-62: when verbs are conjoined and have the same
subject, the subject will be stated after the first verb, and dropped from
the subsequent ones. Thus, {SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh Dargh} becomes
{SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh}, and {chu'bogh DIS 'ej Quchbogh DIS DatIvjaj}
becomes {chu'bogh DIS 'ej Quchbogh DatIvjaj}.
mIHa'lI is completely correct.
>You could say {Quchbogh DIS chu' DatIvjaj} - "May you enjoy a new
>year that is happy" = Have a happy new year.
This demonstrates another form of which I am fond: using an adjectival verb
only once, and sticking the entire noun phrase into a relative clause. It
follows all known rules. Given the information in KGT, however, I wonder if
it isn't somehow stylistically wrong to Klingons. Okrand does tell us that
one "must say" {SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh} to say this phrase.
SuStel
Stardate 98016.5