tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Feb 08 20:50:09 1998

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Re: KLBC: Re: qechmey vIHutlh

charghwI'vo':

Just catching another detail or two:

On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 21:32:30 -0800 (PST) Qov <[email protected]> 
wrote:
...
> At 13:25 98-02-02 -0800, HovqIj wrote:
> }> vaghleS jIHvaD tetlhvamDaq jar wejDIch rInpu'. 

As stated, this means something like, "Five days from now, he 
will have been finished the third month at this list for me." I 
suspect you scrambled your word order and you wanted to say:

vaghleS jIHvaD tetlhvamDaq rInpu' jar wejDIch.

You meant to say that the third month will be finished. {rIn} 
doesn't seem like a transitive verb to me. [be accomplished, 
finished]. You might also choose to cast it in such a way that 
you claim a more active part of the process:

vaghleS qaStaHvIS wej jar naQ tetlhvamvaD jIjeSta'.

"Five days from now, while three entire months happened, I will 
have accomplished participating for the benefit of this list."

I like {tetlhvamvaD} a lot better than {telthvamDaq}. The list 
is not really a location so much as it is an entity with which 
you wish to engage for mutual benefit.

...
Qov writes:
> I see as I work through this that I'm correcting {'e'} many times.  I'll go
> over the one valid use for {'e'}.  It has NO other uses.  
> 
...
> {yaDDu'wIj Dachop 'e' vItIv} "I enjoy it when you bite my toes."

chonajqa'moH...

> }>  toH...
> }> nuq ngaS lut? 'e' qay'qu'.
> 
> This is a misuse of {'e'}...

Yes. Consider:

qay'qu' lut ngoQ.

I'm not trying to do your work for you here. I'm trying to offer 
castings of your meaning that you likely would not have thought 
of so you may see them and begin to think more like this as you 
do more of your own translations. Qov gives you good nudges with 
the focus being on making the smallest modifications to what you 
have already written in order to make it correct. I seek to 
augment that by offering you an unrelated approach that you 
might find refreshing. The combination may bring you a better 
net understanding of this language than either approach alone.

That's my intent, anyway.

> }> vaj yInwIj lut DajHa' neH vIghItlh. 
> 
> This one isn't in TKD, only HolQeD, but {qon} is a much better word than
> {ghItlh} here.  {ghItlh} is just the act of making marks.  {qon} is the
> actual intellectual effort, and is the correct word to use for the combined
> process of thinking and making the marks.

You might consider {qetlh} or {Dal} instead of {DajHa'}. Since 
these words exist, I'd be tempted to expect you were reaching 
for some OTHER meaning; to interpret the {-Ha'} to mean "wrongly 
or badly interesting" rather than the opposite of interesting, 
much in the way {yajHa'} is different from {yajbe'}.

... 
> }> jIroppu'mo' tlhIngan QInmey vIlaDlaHchu'be'. DaH vIlaDmeH nI' QIn tetlh.
> 
> {-meH} isn't quite the right construction to represent this idea.  You're
> saying that the purpose of the list's length is your reading it.  The list
> isn't long for that purpose.  

Ooooo. Good call, Qov. This is a common error which is very easy 
to miss.

> Try:
> 
> {DaH QIn law' vIlaDnIS} - "Now I have to read a lot of messages."
> or
> {DaH nI' QIn tetlh} = "Now the list of messages is long."

or, to contain both of these meanings:

DaH nI' QIn telth vIlaDnISbogh.

"Now the message list that I must read is long." Given the 
wording in TKD, you might be less confused if you replace the 
word "that" with "which" but it is actually better English 
grammar to use "that" here.
   
> }> jIropchugh wa' ngoD QaQ neH tu'lu': DuSaQDaq jIjaHnISbe'. 'ach DuSaQDaq 
> }> jIjaHnISqa'DI' Dochmey law' vIHutlhbogh vIghojnIS. 'e' QaQbe' je. 
> 
> {'e'} problem again.

You don't need {'e'} at all: QaQbe' ghu'vam. The word {ghu'} is 
your friend. Know it well. {wanI'} is also a very useful word in 
settings like this.

> }> lutvam
> }>  taHmoH 
> }> jIHvaD 'e' ngeDHa'. 
> 
> Again you've tried to put the subject of a verb into an SAO construction.
> No can do.

lutvam vItaHmoH vIneH 'ach Qatlh Qu'vam. "I want to continue 
this story, but the task is difficult." I think you reach for 
the suffix {-Ha'} prematurely without seeking better vocabulary 
choices. We need {-Ha'} to cover the many verbs we don't have, 
but using it to create a synonym for an existing word feels odd 
to me.
... 
> Qov     [email protected]
> Beginners' Grammarian                  

charghwI'

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