tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 20 10:12:33 1998

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Re: KLBC - mu'tlheghmey *random* vIchenmoH

---Burt Clawson  wrote:
>
> mujang Qov:
> > > roD HIvpa' betleHDaj lev jor'av.
> > > "Jorev habitually moves his bat'leth from vertical to horizontal
before
> 
> > > atacking."
> 
> > I'd have put the explicit subject on the first verb in the sentence,
> > so you don't have to wait to the end before reaching it.  Be careful
> > when translating that word order doesn't change or obscure meaning.
> 
> Do you mean: "roD HIvpa' jor'av betleHDaj lev."
> or possibly: "roD betleHDaj lev jor'av HIvpa'."
> 
> I got yelled at once for putting a subordinate clause at the end of
the
> sentence, so I don't do it often.

I was looking for the first, and prefer it to the second, not becoause
of the placement of the subordinate clause, but because it names
jor'av before the reference to /betleHDaj/.  I'm not talking about
things that are outright wrong here, just stylistic things to make
your sentence read more smoothly in Klingon, as opposed to in
translation.

> > By way of example, translate into Klingon:
> > Kang removes his ring in order to clean his hands.
> "ghopDu'Daj Say'moHmeH qeng QebDaj teq."
> 
> > Mara's grandfather gave her the sword.
> "maravaD yan nob mara vavnI'."

Or even /maravaD yan nob vavnI'Daj/ if context made it clear it wasn't
someone else's grandfather.

> > Translate into English:
> > qama' jonqa'chugh matlh wInaD.
> "We will praise Maltz if he captures the prisoner again."

I was thinking "recaptures."  I wonder if my Klingon implies, as your
English that it was Maltz who caught him the first time.  I don't know.

> > waqmey Say'choHmoHchu'mo' janvam vIje'.
> "I'll buy this device if it will make my shoes absolutely clean."

I said /-mo'/ not /-chugh/ but you got the idea of which pronoun to use.

> > In English (I looked it up because I was confused) an itinerary is a
> > route taken or planned.  I frown on using it to mean schedule,
because
> > Klingon doesn't use spacial terms to discuss time.
> 
> jeymaj vISambe'mo' maDeghnIS:  vaj veb Qotmagh!
> "Since I can't find our itinerary we need to improvise:  Krotmag is
next
> then!"

:-)    bepchugh Qov latlh Qu' DawIv'a'?  You forgot the /-laH/ in
"can't find."

> > > leSpal HengmeH 'etlh lo'lu'chugh jejHa'qu'nIS.
> 
> > maj.  jejchugh tlhegh pe'ba'.  (Or is it /SIrgh/?  I don't
remember.)
> "Good.  It would obviously cut the string if it were sharp."
> 
> /tlhegh/ "line, rope"  /SIrgh/ "string, thread, filament"

Yes, I know.   But which is correct for a Klingon musical instrument? 
I would guess /tlhegh/ but these things aren't necessarily consistent
from language to language.
 
> > > jISaHDI' DajatlhmeH QumwI' Dalo'nISbe'.
> > > "You do not need to use your communicator to speak to me when I
> > > am present."
> 
> > Do you mean /jISaHDI'/?  It's slightly different than /jISaHtaHvIS/.
> > Without context you *could* mean either.  Remember that /-DI'/
> > translates "as soon as" as well as "when."  To check whether you
want
> > /-vIS/ or /-DI'/ try the sentence with "while" and "as soon as" and
> > see which is closer to your thought.
> 
> bIlugh:  jISaHtaHvIS DajatlhmeH QumwI' Dalo'nISbe'.

Oops, and I missed something else while I was looking at that.  You
mean, of course, /chojatlhmeH/.
 
> > > tujqu'mo' meqleHvam yanmeH Qatlh.
> 
> > qatlh tujchoHpu'?
> "Why has it been made hot?"

Rather, "why has it become hot?"  For "why has it been made hot?" I'd
say /qatlh tujchoHmoHlu'ta'/.  I didn't know it had been *made* hot. 
Maybe it was just left in the sun, or maybe it just happened to get
hot through Maxwell's demon.

> Say'qu'moHmeH vIpubta'.
> "I had boiled it in order to sterilize it."

qatlh meqleH tujqu' DapoQ?  bIHaq'a'? 

> > > ngech voghDaq DIron chu' chuQun.
> 
> > Isn't it ?/choQun/?  mu'mey Qub Dalo'mo' choqaD. :)
> 
> bIlughbe':  chuQun 'oH mu''e'.  I am on a quest to use EVERY Klingon
word
> at least once.  I made a list of randomized pairs, and I force
myself to
> use
> those words.  /Heng//'etlh/, /SaH//QumwI'/, /tuj//yan/,
/ngech//chuQun/,
> etc.

vaj chojeypu'.  (yay! DaH jIpaj net chaw'a'?)  Please send me a pile
of your word pairs for example sentences ... qaStaHvIS vagh jaj,
qar'a' Seqram?
 
> > > mang SoHbe'mo' ne' Duparlaw' 'ej nIHwI' soHmo'be' je.
> > > "The yeoman dislikes you because you aren't a soldier, not because
> > > you are also a thief."
> 
> > Careful.  Watch OVS and suffix order.  The logic falls apart in the
> > second half.  I think you were thinking in English. Try this one
again.
> 
> mang SoHbe'mo' Duparlaw' ne' 'ach nIHwI' je SoHmo'be'.
> The suffix order is intentional:  SoHbe'_mo' "because you are not,"
> SoH_mo'be'
> "not because you are."  Is that the right way to express the idea?

As you can tell from my questions, I'm not with my reference books
today.  I'm pretty sure that rovers don't follow type-9s.  Follow up
to this (as I'm sure you will) and I'll try to find that reference. 
My memory of it is of newbie-me getting told off by ghunchu'wI' or
Seqram.  (We all carry BG-inflicted scars).

Regardless of whether the suffix order works or not do or not, the
final clause kind of dangles there.

I do know that /je/ must follow a verb to mean "also."

mang SoHbe'mo' Duparlaw' ne'
The yeoman dislikes you because you are not a soldier - qay'be'.

I'm not entirely sure what is going on in the English structure "...
not because you are a thie.f" It seems to be a shorthand, something
that works because of how English works.  Your attempt to find a
conjunction that works to fill the role of "not" there illustrates
this. /'ej/ didn't work and neither did /'ach/.  

I'd translate this more like /mang SoHbe'mo' Duparlaw' ne'.  nIHwI'
SoH 'e' SaHbe'/.  Not perfect yet.  Keep hammering.
 
> > > 'ejyo' yaS HoHmeH 'un naQDaj lo' DIjwI'.
> > > "The painter used his mixing stick to kill the Starfleet officer."
> 
> > As in the first sentence of this set, the explicit subject
(/DIjwI'/)
> > is in the place it would be if you translated from English, not
wrote
> > in Klingon.  Find a clearer place to put it.
> 
> 'ejyo' yaS HoHmeH DIjwI' 'un naQDaj lo'.  qar'a'?

maj.  Isn't /'un naQ/ is a mixing stick for a pot?  Is that the same
thing that a painter mixes pain with?

==

Qov - Beginners' Grammarian

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